Oh, LIGHTEN UP. This is why people make fun of you.
Why is ST09's altered timeline a problem?
- Thread starter TiberiusMaximus
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Oh, LIGHTEN UP. This is why people make fun of you.
Show me on the MEGO action figure where the altered timeline touched your screens.
As a long time fan since the early 70s I have enjoyed Trek's continuity. I don't mind Trek being rebooted I just think this movie really muddied up the waters because there is great debate on how this movie fits in with continuity and there are valid arguments on both sides of the isle that point to a parallel universe being created or original Trek being written over. So the problem is that the movie isn't as clear about these issues as the writers claim it to be.You...mean...they're...not...real?????? Noooooooo! I...I....I don't believe it!! Please say you're not telling me that Captain Kirk is...is....FICTIONAL???!?!?!??!!! Oh My Gosh!!! You're ruined my whole life!!! Are you actually trying to tell me that my DVD's aren't really "historical documents" from the future????? How can this be????
Sorry, just had to do it. It really boggles my mind how some people seem to insist that others have some delusion that Star Trek is somehow "real" and not a work of fiction.
Hah! Seriously, I don't think anyone is really suggesting that the hardcore continuity fans actually think this stuff is real, but there does seem to be a segment of fandom that is emotionally invested in the idea that there is a "real" and a "true" STAR TREK canon that trumps all others. As opposed to those us who attach less importance to canon and see it just as raw material to work with--and revise as necessary.
(I, of course, may be biased here, having spent my entire career writing books that were never considered canon. So I stopped worrying about canon decades ago)
So, yeah, some of us get baffled and scratch our heads when people start complaining that this isn't the "real" Kirk. It's not that we think those other posters are delusional; it's just that we know in our hearts that none of it is real. So arguing about which imaginary fictional constructs are more real than others seem kind of puzzling . . . .
AAAAIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ST's AU isn't a problem for me, I love being able to have my cake and eat it too.
I also want to have my cake and it too, I just have a problem reconciling what the writers tell me about a parallel universe being created when there is so much evidence on screen to the contrary.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
It's rather simple really. The "real" Kirk is a fantastic guy you would be willing to follow into hell itself, and follow all his adventures.
The fake Kirk is an asshole you want to phaser into oblivion.
Yes, Kirk sprung from his mother's loins a seasoned leader of men. A wayward youth? Perish the thought...
Both Kirks are fake, neither are real despite the above use of ironic quotes.
Real and fake are being used in lieu of phrases "I prefer" and "I don't like".
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Nah, even if the timeline that Spock and Nero came from is overwritten, the original timeline/universe is still out there, as Spock and Nero didn't come from that universe.
A black hole with red matter was what was used to try and save Romulus. This black hole and red matter was something that Spock/Vulcans/Federaton had to provide to do so. However, in the main universe the Romulans are an empire every bit as much an equal to the Federation AND they are the absolute masters of the artificial black hole as that is what powers their ships.
So if a black hole was what needed to save Romulus, the Romulans would have done it all on their own and handily succeeded, as I doubt they would miss-calculate the supernova my multiple years, and be so stupid as to try and stop it from going off years it already went off.
In the main universe, Romulus is still very much intact, as is the Romulan Empire.
So you believe that this movie takes place in an already established paralell universe?
No he believes that Spock Prime and Nero are from an entirely different universe altogether. He says that so he can feel all warm and gooey inside.
People tend to not realize how much a father plays a role in a son's life. They even made a comparison in the movie, when nuKirk asked if his father was there to see him in Starfleet, and Spock replied that he was able to see Kirk take command of the Enterprise.
In all honesty, I can relate to nuKirk more than Kirk because nuKirk seems more human. This new crew seems more human. They make mistakes, they feel pain if they see their loved one in pain, they're arrogant, they're divorced, and of course they learn from their mistakes.
People tend to not realize how much a father plays a role in a son's life. They even made a comparison in the movie, when nuKirk asked if his father was there to see him in Starfleet, and Spock replied that he was able to see Kirk take command of the Enterprise.
In all honesty, I can relate to nuKirk more than Kirk because nuKirk seems more human. This new crew seems more human. They make mistakes, they feel pain if they see their loved one in pain, they're arrogant, they're divorced, and of course they learn from their mistakes.
That's Spanish/Portuguese and the "a" ending has nothing to do with gender in this case.
On a different note, I just read pages and pages of this thing and must wonder why people care so much whether ST09 "re-writes" canon or if it's a "parallel universe". I get the arguments, but I honestly don't think it matters.
So what if you just met these people. That's the case with most fictional works you see for the first time, and what makes people care about them is whether they're engaging characters or not.... otherwise, nothing would ever be successful.
They were Kirk, Spock and the gang. They were well written, the actors were great and I for one was not bothered by any plot holes or what have you. So, I cared about the characters. This film poses no threat to the older works. I have no problem believing in both universes, even if they should be the same. Just sit back, enjoy the show, use your imagination and try not to overthink it. It doesn't change a thing and will only make you miserable.
There's no point in getting worked up over something you cannot change anyway.... especially regarding a fictional universe that is supposed to entertain you.
That is pretty much what I had asked. Did he believe that Spock Prime and Nero are from an entirely different universe altogether?
I agree with this.
Just let go of the baggage holding you back.
Soon after I first saw the film I had a little talk with my canonist side, we decided we had two options - freak-out - pull my hair out by the roots while running through the streets naked or reconcile it.
Option one would leave me a bitter old Trekker visiting fan sites trashing my lifelong favorite franchise or dropping it altogether.
Option two would allow me to continue on the journey started so long ago. It was a no brainer, I choose to simply ignore anything which did not canonically add up (I'd done before with Classic Trek) and Keep On Trekking!
Fair enough. Meanwhile I propose that the rest of us be referred to as "canornachists."
Just let go of the baggage holding you back.
Soon after I first saw the film I had a little talk with my canonist side, we decided we had two options - freak-out - pull my hair out by the roots while running through the streets naked or reconcile it.
Option one would leave me a bitter old Trekker visiting fan sites trashing my lifelong favorite franchise or dropping it altogether.
Option two would allow me to continue on the journey started so long ago. It was a no brainer, I choose to simply ignore anything which did not canonically add up (I'd done before with Classic Trek) and Keep On Trekking!
I don't mind them violating canon as long as they created a paralell universe, an alternate time line, or it takes place in an already established parallel or different universe...I just can't decide which it is!! Each option seems to raise many questions.
I may have to wait to see how this is handled in the next movie to make my choice.
Fair enough. Meanwhile I propose that the rest of us be referred to as "canonarchists."
We even have our own flag. Its a no-cannon sign.
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