Why is Kirk so revered???

[FederationHistorian]

A bit harsh, but I agree Kirk was the most likeable.

Archer's "bigotry" towards Vulcans added some depth to the story. The relationship between Vulcans and Humans not always being so rosey was more interesting than a "kumbaya" type atmosphere.

Also, Picard and Riker demonstrated some prejudgments against Ferengi and Vulcans at times. Rivalries happen.

I’m not complaining. I’m just pointing out that his bigotry toward Vulcans at one point in his life was a part of Archer’s character, regardless of if he was a product of his time or not.

And Starfleet officers in general do not like the Ferengi, as they remind them of 21st century Earth too much, an era they have noted disdain for.

well, recent real-life events show that everyone can be president material.

Saving Earth from the Xindi and helping to found the Federation > torture, hypocrisy (if Paxton could be called out as one, so should Archer), and helping to overthrow an ally’s government I suppose. Even though I sure Vulcan helped Earth to recover from WW3, and are the reason why the Klingons did not behave like mirror Cochrane and blast him and Sato once he stepped foot in the Klingon High Council Chamber and then his crew from orbit

Honestly, I can't imagine that most of those missions would be known by the general public in the Star Trek Universe. At the very least, aspects of them would be highly classified.

But Kirk obviously did something to become famous during the TOS era. Captain Harriman says in GEN that he read about Kirk's missions in grade school. And Kirk was a handsome, charismatic guy, younger than most of the other captains we saw on TOS, so it makes sense that the media would latch onto him. He's like JFK in that regard.

But it's an interesting question: Which of the missions we saw on TOS would be publicly reported on?

Well, if Harriman was 37 in GEN, then he would be 11 in TOS S1 and 16 by the end of Kirk’s 5-year mission. Maybe its something in TAS as opposed to TOS that Harriman read that he was referring to.

 

[Ragitsu]

This thread has taken a swerve for the random.

 

[Lord Garth]

Well, if Harriman was 37 in GEN, then he would be 11 in TOS S1 and 16 by the end of Kirk’s 5-year mission. Maybe its something in TAS as opposed to TOS that Harriman read that he was referring to.

Where I am, in Massachusetts, "grade school" is another way to say "elementary school". So, if Harriman were 16 during TAS, that would be high school. I peg Harriman as early-to-mid-30s in GEN. Despite the actor's age, Alan Ruck also played a teenager in Ferris Bueller's Day Off less than a decade earlier. So it's not a stretch that Harriman's age wouldn't match Alan Ruck's.

 

[fireproof78]

This thread has taken a swerve for the random.

Welcome to the BBS.

 

[1001001]

more like an Internet rule

A Parks and Recreation rule.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

I’m not complaining. I’m just pointing out that his bigotry toward Vulcans at one point in his life was a part of Archer’s character, regardless of if he was a product of his time or not.

And Starfleet officers in general do not like the Ferengi, as they remind them of 21st century Earth too much, an era they have noted disdain for.

And just to correct myself, I intended to say "Romulans" rather than "Vulcans."

 

[FederationHistorian]

And just to correct myself, I intended to say "Romulans" rather than "Vulcans."

With the Romulans, its more a cold war mentality that has a 200 year old violent origin behind it.

We’ve seen the TOS and TNG perspective and even DIS, but not the ENT era perspective postwar. So we don’t know if Archer turned his bigotry from the Vulcan to the Romulans or if he pities them or what.

 

[Kor]

While the Encyclopedia Britannica says that the term "grade school" could also include secondary/high school, that usage doesn't seem very common in recent decades. So I got the sense that Harriman meant elementary/primary school when he said "grade school." And Kirk's reaction showed he wasn't exactly flattered.

Kor

 

[Christopher]

Hunh. I always thought of "grade school" as everything before college, since high school has grades too. But the dictionary and Wikipedia say it's mainly used for elementary/primary school. I did not know that.

 

[Phoenix219]

I guess I just assumed that it was anything before high school, because that's when grades also have names like freshman Junior sophomore and senior. I've always taken it to be along the lines of since you were in diapers, to imply a long time ago or at a young age.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

With the Romulans, its more a cold war mentality that has a 200 year old violent origin behind it.

We’ve seen the TOS and TNG perspective and even DIS, but not the ENT era perspective postwar. So we don’t know if Archer turned his bigotry from the Vulcan to the Romulans or if he pities them or what.

It doesn't take nearly 200 years to develop a tribal rivalry though. It can happen much more quickly than that.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Yeah, I generally take "grade school" to mean anything before high school or even junior high.

Interestingly, Helena Bonham Carter only said a certain infamous line in Fight Club,

Spoiler: CAUTION - May offend certain readers

"I haven't been fucked like that since grade school,"

because, being British, she didn't realize just HOW young "grade school" meant.

 

[Mx_MossBall]

Kirk is so revered because Kirk/Spock was instrumental in star trek being a cult hit, and that led to the star trek we know now

 

[FederationHistorian]

It doesn't take nearly 200 years to develop a tribal rivalry though. It can happen much more quickly than that.

And we don’t know the degree of it in the ENT era, since the finale didn’t even touch on the subject. We only have first contact with the Romulans and then forming an alliance to deal with a pair of drone ships initially seen as a mysterious marauder. We never got the immediate reaction from those who, by proximity, would have been affected by those events the most.

Yeah, I generally take "grade school" to mean anything before high school or even junior high.

Interestingly, Helena Bonham Carter only said a certain infamous line in Fight Club,

Spoiler: CAUTION - May offend certain readers

"I haven't been fucked like that since grade school,"

because, being British, she didn't realize just HOW young "grade school" meant.

Well, it depends, since some school boards don’t have junior high and just go straight through to grade 8.

But still, if Harriman was a young guy and became a captain at a young age, then he would be reading about those missions around the age of 10, give or take a year.

And Starfleet seems to be transparent about their missions. Not to mention that they might be discussed around the dinner table by those that work at Starfleet HQ, and then word gets passed around.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

And we don’t know the degree of it in the ENT era, since the finale didn’t even touch on the subject. We only have first contact with the Romulans and then forming an alliance to deal with a pair of drone ships initially seen as a mysterious marauder. We never got the immediate reaction from those who, by proximity, would have been affected by those events the most.

The finale was a complete mess for many reasons.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think a lot of the Starfleet Brass who didn't like Kirk during the Movie Era took full advantage of his death. They'd be that low, having their cake and eating it too. They could play up the legend of James T. Kirk, "A great man was lost," without having to worry about "What's he done now?!" anymore.

A lot of future Starfleet Officers probably wished they could get away with the things they thought Kirk got away with. So they'd begin to pine for the days of Kirk. The legend becomes bigger than the person over time. Especially with Kirk no longer being able to say anything about it.

Even Picard probably thought he could be like Kirk, in a way. In PIC, he went straight up to Clancy and basically told her (while making it look like he was asking) to make him a Captain and give him a ship again to go looking for Soji. And all Clancy could say to that was, "The sheer fucking hubris." Getting demoted to command a ship again was Kirk's schtick.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Well, it depends, since some school boards don’t have junior high and just go straight through to grade 8.

This is a thing that varies from region to region of the U.S. Where I went to school, junior high was 7th and 8th grade. In other areas of the country, junior high is 7th-9th grade.

 

[Mojochi]

Revered by the fans or in the narrative? The fans revering him is bloody simple. It's like asking why so many people think Connery is the best Bond

Revered in the narrative is a more interesting question. Brokering peace with the Klingons probably has a lot to do with it, especially given his history with them & the nature of how it all went down, & sure, lots of the captains saved Earth or countless millions etc... but I sort of feel like his particular era of Starfleet carries some romanticism among the generations. They were the mavericks. They might not have been the pioneers like Archer's era, but they were the frontiersmen, the cowboys. That's gonna make legends, & Kirk would be at the forefront of them for his time

 

[Dar70]

You know I never came back to my thread. I was being a bit tongue in cheek. But many made some excellent points. Maybe kirk is still tops. Just his mission were not as glitzy...lol...

 

[gweeps]

Kirk is so revered because you forget it's really Shatner when you're watching him.