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Why is DS9 so disliked....

Chris_Moderato said:
I watched the first couple episodes of DS9, found it boring and the acting over-the-top, and passed. Now, some 14 years later, I've started at episode 1, and I've decided I'm going to watch it all the way through. I did the same with Enterprise, another show I thought stunk after the first couple, and I fell in love with it.

When do the arcs start?
From the start.

Sisko's "Emissary" story runs thru out the series. The Dominion are first mentioned in season one. The Vedek Winn/Bajor stories don't seem like much now but as the story starts to really unfold by season 3, all the pieces start to fall together.

BTW, don't take the Ferengi stories too seriously. They're mostly there to break up the "dark" mood of the show.
 
If you watch the show from the beginning, it's fun to see how it improves from season to season, all the way to "What You Leave Behind," IMHO.

When Sisko goes with the Prophets and Odo leaves heal the founders at the end, my eight year old cries. So does her dad. What a great show!
 
Saxman1 said:
If you watch the show from the beginning, it's fun to see how it improves from season to season, all the way to "What You Leave Behind," IMHO.

When Sisko goes with the Prophets and Odo leaves heal the founders at the end, my eight year old cries. So does her dad. What a great show!
Ok, since you admitted her dad cries too, the flashback scenes get me balling everytime. :o It always starts when O'Brian finds the missing Santa Anna piece on the carpet.

I never thought I could be touched so much by a TV show that it would bring me too tears.

Now I must go and hang my head in shame. :lol:
 
Photon said:
DS9 tends to be liked by more mature viewers.

I just love this one. DS9 viewers are more 'mature', enlightened, older, more sophisticated, can jump higher, etc.

Give me a break.
 
Navaros said:
Back to the OP's question, and I've said this before and I'll say it again: main reason in my view is because DS9 is too sophisticated for average joe viewer. Generally speaking, on TV "stupid" sells. "Smart", "complex", or "sophisticated" does not.

WHOMP - dere it is! Again. If you don't like DS9, it's because you aren't sophisticated enough.
 
"If you don't like DS9, it's because you aren't sophisticated enough."

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Most people are too stupid to enjoy anything more sophisticated than "Dharma and Greg."
 
Ya know, I consider my wife a genius but her favorite Star Trek is VOY, probably my least fav, but I still like it. She enjoys DS9 but says she's not always in the mood for deep thinking after a hard day at work. Hence VOY - no, I'm not saying VOY - favorite fans are idiots at all, OK? No flames, please. Ha, ha, ha!
 
Orac Zen said:
It isn't disliked on this board. Far from it, in fact.

I'm not a fan of DS9 for a number of reasons, most of which aren't easily explained. I hope to give the show another go at some stage, though, so my impressions may (or may not) change.

Oh - welcome to TBBS. :D


Without reading all 4 pages of this thread, the reason I've found that people have disliked DS9 is because the shows didn't adhere to the [idiotic if you ask me] notion that all Federation members are goody two shoes and morally upright all the time. The series presented a series of flawed yet more real IMHO characters.

The things that make DS9 IMHO the best of Trek are for others what it makes it the worst - more complicated characters.
 
exodus said:[/i] Ok, since you admitted her dad cries too, the flashback scenes get me balling everytime.

Then no doubt it's your significant other's favorite series, as well. :devil:

[Looks around and whispers, "I think you meant 'bawling,' exodus."] ;)

I've always found the most rabid DS9 fans more than a bit obnoxious; they have an ingrained belief in the superior maturity of their tastes—which is, frankly, laughable.

The crux of it is this: That which makes the series particularly enjoyable for some—its darker tone, perceived grittiness and realism—is precisely what other, equally intelligent and perceptive viewers find distasteful ... and in some cases, abhorrent.

Neither side is objectively "right." I enjoy Deep Space Nine enormously ... but it's not the quintessence of Trek, despite the cacophony of endorsement from its supporters.

[Note that I had not read the above post before adding this one.]
 
JM1776 said:
Neither side is objectively "right." I enjoy Deep Space Nine enormously ... but it's not the quintessence of Trek, despite the cacophony of endorsement from its supporters.

[Note that I had not read the above post before adding this one.]

Than what is then, it certainly wouldn't be the abortion of the last two movies, Insurrection and Nemesis?

Nor would it be Lost in Space Star Trek, err Star Trek Voyager would it?
 
Getting a bit testy in here.

First off, let me say that I love DS9--I have trouble taking sides in the battle of which is best, but I love TOS, TNG and DS9. I go through phases of heavy watching with each; however, I probably watch DS9 the least of the 3. With that said, I've gone through the whole run 3 full times plus more for many episodes, so I'm no DS9 novice.

Now, the reason I think DS9 didn't do as well as TNG or is more "disliked" is because it simply takes more effort on the part of the viewer. That doesn't mean that said viewer is any smarter; it means that said viewer is willing to endure a few "slower" episodes with the hope or knowledge that he or she will be rewarded. DS9 is not a show for the casual viewer like TOS and TNG are.
 
aladinsane said:
That doesn't mean that said viewer is any smarter; it means that said viewer is willing to endure a few "slower" episodes with the hope or knowledge that he or she will be rewarded. DS9 is not a show for the casual viewer like TOS and TNG are.

One legitimate criticism I've heard of DS9 was the extremely long Dominion War story arc and if one missed some of it, one lacked an understanding on how to follow the story lines.
 
DarthTom said:
One legitimate criticism I've heard of DS9 was the extremely long Dominion War story arc and if one missed some of it, one lacked an understanding on how to follow the story lines.

The Dominion arc was at the end of the series!
How long until we were introduced to the Dominion as a whole?

Minds were made up LONG before they were able to criticize THIS aspect of the show.
 
Most people who don't appreciate DS9 in my experience are usually people who aren't big Trek fans to begin with. They may have an affinity for one series like TNG, VOY, ENT or TOS but they usually aren't the die-hards.

Many people simply can't get over the idea that series took place on a space station and not on a starship and they have their pre-conceived notions about how the series is without ever having really watched it.

When I wasn't a Trek fan (and just a casual viewer), I was the same way and I was also one of these dorks who thought it was blasphemous that TNG have anyone else other than Kirk, Spock, McCoy, et. al.

For me, the fact is that DS9 is what made me a die-hard Trek fan of all of the series because the damned stories were so compelling.

In critical circles though, DS9 is widely considered the best Trek of all despite not having the kind of commercial success that TNG enjoyed.

-Shawn :borg:
 
M'rk, son of Mogh said:
DarthTom said:
One legitimate criticism I've heard of DS9 was the extremely long Dominion War story arc and if one missed some of it, one lacked an understanding on how to follow the story lines.

The Dominion arc was at the end of the series!
How long until we were introduced to the Dominion as a whole?

Minds were made up LONG before they were able to criticize THIS aspect of the show.
Well, you're off on that because the War Arc lasted for seasons 5, 6 and 7 and tensions began in season 3. That's hardly the end of the series.

Personally, the War arc was my favorite aspect of the show.

But I agree with you completely that critics of the show wrote it off a long time before the Dominion showed up.

-Shawn :borg:
 
CaptainHawk1 said:
Most people who don't appreciate DS9 in my experience are usually people who aren't big Trek fans to begin with. They may have an affinity for one series like TNG, VOY, ENT or TOS but they usually aren't the die-hards.

My two elder siblings and closest friend have watched every Trek since first-runTOS and none of them liked DS9.
 
I hadn't really paid much attention to this thread after my initial post, so it's been an...interesting...read. I may as well throw my two cents into the pot.

Navaros said:
[...] I've said this before and I'll say it again: main reason in my view is because DS9 is too sophisticated for average joe viewer.
You do realise that comment can be interpreted in a...less than flattering way, right?
Photon said:
DS9 tends to be liked by more mature viewers.
Tyson said:
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Most people are too stupid to enjoy anything more sophisticated than "Dharma and Greg."
As can these comments. I'm sure none of you are actually saying that people who don't care for DS9 aren't as smart or sophisticated or mature as people who do, because that would be absurd. Making those sorts of judgements about people based on whether or not they watch a particular TV show - however marvellous one considers that show to be - is patronising and ridiculous, and really doesn't encourage non-fans who venture into this thread to consider arguments in the show's favour.

exodus said:
More than half of DS9 first & secondary cast can run rings around B5's as far as credible acting.
But none of them can hold a candle to Andreas Katsulas or Peter Jurasik. ;)

Those sorts of comparisons are pointless. One person's great actor is another's ham. Personally, I consider Brooks to be among the worst actors in Trek, but to each their own. And given I reckon Visitor, Auberjonois and Robinson are wonderful actors, my views of DS9 have little to do with my perception of the actors involved.

DarthTom said:
One legitimate criticism I've heard of DS9 was the extremely long Dominion War story arc and if one missed some of it, one lacked an understanding on how to follow the story lines.
This is among the least of my issues with DS9. I dipped into the show regularly and watched lengthy stretches of episodes (because, to borrow part of what aladinsane said, I was "willing to endure a few "slower" episodes with the hope [...] that [I would] be rewarded") and I had no difficulty following what was going on. Some finer details may have been lost but the basic storyline isn't difficult to keep track of.

CaptainHawk1 said:
Most people who don't appreciate DS9 in my experience are usually people who aren't big Trek fans to begin with.
That's a possibility but it certainly doesn't apply to me. I've watched every Trek series there's been and four of them (including the animated series) kept my attention. Two did not, and for various reasons DS9 was one of them.

Lots of people like DS9 and consider it to be not just the quintessence of Trek, but the Best Show Ever. That's perfectly okay. To each their own. For various reasons – few, if any, of which have anything to do with the viewer's intelligence, maturity, sophistication or ability to cope with "complexity" - it isn't everyone's cup of tea and I really don't see why that's a big deal. We're not all required to like the same things and one's own enjoyment of something shouldn't be affected by the lack of enthusiasm of others. And belittling people who don't share one's taste in TV shows is just ridiculous.
 
new_mercury said:
Everything seems to have a 'black sheep'. The bigger a 'franchise' gets the more critical people get. I no longer think DS9 is ST's black sheep. It seems that Ent is.

Neither deserve to be. All are different attempts at setting up one universe.
I always try not to have a favourite or least favourite. This is helped by the fact I can honestly say I love all 6 series.
If I was told to choose a favourite it would have to be DS9.
Alothugh as I said it is hard to do. It's like choosing ones favourite song from ones favourite band. Necessary but nigh on impossible.
Great take, I agree.

DS9 may have been singled out for criticism by some of our Trekkie brethren in the past and it may have stung at the time that they didn't see in it what I did, but I'm far from caring whether they do any longer.

That something, whatever it is, that was missing from the other Treks, I found in this show. I'm eternally grateful to Paramount for taking a chance on a rather different vantage of the Trekkie universe, glad it was made and I still watch it and enjoy it. I don't need to think it superior to enjoy it. It's my cup of tea!
 
Okay guys.

I want NO more posts in this thread that discuss attributes or suspected attributes of DS9 FANS/NON-FANS. You want to discuss the *show*, that's cool. But I don't wanna see any more comments about people who don't like DS9 perhaps being less sophisticated...or people who don't like DS9 not being hard core enough fans. It IS possible to dislike this show and be a very sophisticated and mature fan of other Trek shows.

Also, I do NOT want to see any more posts implying that 'rabid' DS9 fans (like that is the only series who has them :rolleyes:) are 'obnoxious'. DS9 fans do NOT hold a monopoly on being obnoxious. As is evidenced by some of the very posts in this thread. You guys wanna start up that OBNOXIOUS DS9/VOY rivalry, take it somewhere else. Because in my experience, there were plenty of annoying people on BOTH sides of that particular table and plenty of blame to go 'round.

Finally, I want no more Babylon 5/DS9-related War Without End-esque comments. Nothing good ever comes out of the DS9/B5 bashfest-of-doom. And I won't have it started up in this forum.

Thanks.
 
PKTrekGirl said:
You want to discuss the *show*, that's cool. But I don't wanna see any more comments about people who don't like DS9 perhaps being less sophisticated...or people who don't like DS9 not being hard core enough fans.

Also, I do NOT want to see any more posts implying that 'rabid' DS9 fans (like that is the only series who has them :rolleyes:) are 'obnoxious'.

Great post, that should be posted in all fora. The folks in the Voyager forum have been subjected to years of DS9 fans starting threads like this:

Thread trashing Voyager in Voyager forum
 
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