Why Don't You Listen To Audio Trek?

[Johnny]

I think that some form of visual would be good; what always facinated me was watching extras on dvd's where they'd overlay the audio from a film with storyboards from pre, maybe something like that could help?

I also realise that (as far as the number of people it takes) 3d space is generally easier to produce than actual filming, so some rendered stills within all that could add to the effect without too much effort.

I thoroughly like the idea of audio drama's in general, but it does take longer to identify with the characters, having to become familier with their voices without having image to relate to.

 

[MikeH92467]

I think that some form of visual would be good; what always facinated me was watching extras on dvd's where they'd overlay the audio from a film with storyboards from pre, maybe something like that could help?

I also realise that (as far as the number of people it takes) 3d space is generally easier to produce than actual filming, so some rendered stills within all that could add to the effect without too much effort.

I thoroughly like the idea of audio drama's in general, but it does take longer to identify with the characters, having to become familier with their voices without having image to relate to.

Ah, but as we used to say in radio, the pictures are better!

 

[Wowbagger]

^ I, for one, definitely have a face for radio. :P Thanks again, everybody.

I second Hudson's recommendation of Outpost. That's a heckuva show, and it's young enough that it's still pretty easy to jump into. (Excelsior, of course, remains my fave.)

 

[Starhawk]

I love listening to the audio Trek series. While I have not yet listened to Section 31 I have listened to all of Lost Frontiers and Outpost as well as others I have found. In some cases I find the acting to be better than the video series and I like using my imagination to picture everything going on. That's just me though.

The stuff at Darker Projects rocks in my book and I have donated to them to encourage them in their work.

As for the video projects some of them are very good, while others should be spaced into the Mutara Nebula or something. Not to diminish the hard work that goes into them but the acting and dialogue just aren't there to interest me. Then there are others like Starship Farragut, which has, in my opinion, some of the best writing out there and I love the animated series that they are putting together. They are, by far, my favorite video based series. I have tried watching the Hideen Frontiers projects and some of them are good, but not all have grabbed my interest enough to keep on top of them.

On other notes I also listen to the audio productions for many of the Star Wars projects out there. Some of them are darn good.

 

[Kelso]

Well, I gave a listen to the first episode of Star Trek: Outpost and it was... pretty good, actually.

They managed to set up some interesting characters and situations that I'm genuinely interested in checking out again and the actors/audio production didn't come across as terribly amateurish.

My primary criticism would be that it took too long to get going. They really could have dropped the first 15-20 minutes of the episode and kicked-off the story with the main character arriving at DS3.

I like that the characters and humor are a bit quirky. It was fun to see a typically stuffy 24th Century starfleet officer having to deal with the odd characters of DS3. There were some nice chuckle-worthy moments...

---
Commander: So, what happened to your last Captain?
Officer: We lost him.
Commander: Oh, I'm sorry. How did he die?
Officer: No, sir... we actually lost him.
---
Commander: According to regulation yadda-yadda-yadda, it is customary for the Commanding officer to ask the Chief's permission before entering his workspace.
Chief: Really? So, what would happen if I said "No"?
Commander: Well...
Chief: Computer, close the door.

Those examples are truncated and paraphrased from memory, but you get the idea.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check out the rest.

 

[Kirok_of_LStok]

Yes I do listen to Trek audio dramas, in fact I try to listen to them all. However I'll admit that there are some that I can't get past the half-way mark. I'll join the group hug over Outpost and I could mention some more ... except then you'd assume the ones I didn't mention were the ones I didn't like and ... damn! It's hard being universally supportive!

The biggest fans of fan-made audio dramas are the fans who make them. NOT because they are trying to blow their own trumpet or anything but because it is *so* accessible to participate in an audio drama that anyone who likes them has probably at least auditioned for one.

I see Wowbagger's point though. It would be nice to play to a wider audience and when you see fan films get website hits that you don't ... <shrugs> There's just no getting away from the fact that simply by adding the visual element you are doubling the channels you can communicate your story to your audience with. As W takes great pains to point out, this thread isn't about anything that the fan film producers are doing wrong, or their viewers either, but to get feedback on what is holding fans back from trying an audio drama.

And it's worked! I think that jaksajak's post had some great ideas - I especially liked the idea of combining the audio drama with a visual factor such as "a motion comic, cartoon, or some read-along visual format". The addition of a visual element is a common thread in most of the posts.

Personally I think the addition of a visual element is vital - Defiant's covers are part of its appeal - but I know some audio drama producers who specifically do NOT want any graphics of their characters or locations because they do not want to compromise their listener's imaginations.

As regards a large backlog of episodes being a drawback, does missing the first episode of a major TV series stop you from watching the rest of the series until it comes out as a boxed set? If the backstory is allowed to be peeked every now and then - or as with Excelsior you have a primer that you can check for the previous plotline - then you can usually pick up the thread as you are going along.

Besides, many productions only have bottle episodes or short story arcs so you don't have that problem. Personally I like the idea of a mini series so that you have enough length to tell a substantial story but the commitment is doable and you don't have fan disappointment when you don't get episode 75 out on time!

Writing for audio is, as a few have pointed out, a specialised skill (one I'm still working on) and the point with regards brevity is a good one. You can't start an audio drama the same way the standard TNG episode did - with a poker game, or some other homely teaser. You need to grab your reader's interest right there in the first minute and give him a reason for listening to the rest of the show!

I believe that audio is a viable way of storytelling but to be done well enough to gather a mainstream audience is a skill that is not easy.

Cheers

K

 

[Picard Alpha]

Never really thought of listening to it... to be honest.

 

[Kirok_of_LStok]

Never really thought of listening to it... to be honest.

[SOUND: Doorbell]
Could I have a moment of your time, sir? You'd be in the 20-25 year old male demographic, sir? Did you not think about it because the product did not catch your eye? No, wait, it's audio ... sorry wrong survey
[SOUND: Paper torn up and crumpled]
... ummm, did you not think about it because you'd never heard of them? Or because they didn't appeal to you? Or other fill in details here ... oops!

K

 

[Lindley]

First reply hit the nail on the head, really. Audios are best experienced when you are giving your attention to something else but not really thinking about it, such as when driving a long distance.

With a fan film, you can sit in front of your computer and watch it, and that's enough. But you can't sit at your computer and just listen to something. The screen is there right in front of you----there's the unavoidable compulsion to do something else while you listen. And that typically means reading something online. Well, you can't read and listen at the same time, not effectively. So your attention drifts and you lose interest in one or the other. Sometimes both.

I think in this climate, fan audios are going to have a tough time presenting themselves as individual episodes to be played on a computer. But if they're packaged as entire albums per-season in a manner which facilitates easy CD burning or iPod transfer, maybe even with a printable CD cover, they could perhaps gain some traction with the audiobook crowd.

 

[Barbreader]

I think Lindley has a point. I can imagine people listening to audio Trek on the way to and form work or school in the car. I don't own a car, myself, but if I did, and I got past the 22 minute radio news broadcast, audio Trek might be a possibility if I could burn whole CD at a time off the web and bring them into the car.

 

[Kirok_of_LStok]

I think Lindley has a point. I can imagine people listening to audio Trek on the way to and form work or school in the car. I don't own a car, myself, but if I did, and I got past the 22 minute radio news broadcast, audio Trek might be a possibility if I could burn whole CD at a time off the web and bring them into the car.

You mean like Star Trek: Defiant? Three CD's with a total of 39 episodes, about 19 hours in full 128kbps sound. Strangely enough though they don't have a CD cover and label for it, which is funny because their episodes each have great cover art by Xaq Bazit.

I think there are others but Defiant are the group that spring to mind. Interesting point though - a professional looking presentation could lift the public perception of audio drama.

Star Trek: The Continuing Mission is another example, now that I think of it, both for the quality of their show and its presentation. Perhaps producers should audition for their webmaster and graphic artists as well as their Voice Actors?

K

 

[Barbreader]

Kirok of L'Stok, as you know, I started creating a list of links to an assortment of Star Trek drama in June, which became restricted to video when I realized the world of Star Trek Fan drama was easily ten times as large as I thought when I started out. However, I did include Audio Drama in my list of Star Trek Names Not Associated with Star Trek Fan Films, and I have over 20 audio Dramas on that list, vis:
http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/246.html

1) Dispatches from the Romulan War http://12daysxmas.thunderdownunder.org/day8.htm
2) Star Fleet Renegades http://starfleetrenegades.com/Starfleet_Renegades/Welcome.html
3) Star Trek: The Continuing Mission http://www.sttcm.com/
4) Star Trek: Crossroads http://www.darkerprojects.com/crossroads.php
5) Star Trek: Defiant http://www.pendantaudio.com/defiant.php
6) Star Trek: Dimensions http://www.giantgnome.com/ http://www.giantgnome.com/our-shows/audio-drama/star-trek-dimensions/
7) Star Trek: Diplomatic Relations (Audio show with video trailers) http://www.startrekdiplomaticrelations.com/
8) Star Trek: Eras (audio series) http://www.twerponline.net/eras/
9) and 10)Star Trek: Excelsior includes TWO unrelated sets of audio drama. One is a list of audio dramas available on CD about Captain Sulu (TOS era, what I call Golden Age) listed here: http://www.ridgenet.net/~curtdan/Excelsior/Stories.html . The second is the set of audio dramas set in the late TNG/DS9/VOY era, which I call Silver Age, http://www.starshipexcelsior.com/
11) Star Trek: The Expedition http://www.theexpedition.org/ (this includes video trailors)
12) Star Trek: Grissom (an audio series) http://www.startrekgrissom.com/ set in 2285
13) Star Trek: Lost Frontier (Audio Production) http://www.darkerprojects.com/index.php http://star-trek-lost-frontier.blogspot.com/ http://www.darkerprojects.com/lostfrontier.php#0113
14) Star Trek: Mirror Wars (audio; reported to be available only from iTunes.
15) Star Trek: Mission of Mercy http://www.freewebs.com/ussmedstar/
16) Star Trek: The New Frontier http://www.circus13productions.com/trek/index.shtml
17) Star Trek: Outpost http://www.giantgnome.com/
18) Star Trek: Phoenix http://forums.hiddenfrontier.com/index.php?showtopic=14372
19) Star Trek: Pioneer (audio series) Star Trek: Pioneer Filmmaker is http://www.youtube.com/user/tbcfilms but he speaks of them as 'related to my fan fiction series.' 4 of the 5 are under 2 minutes. These are just trailers and teasers for a fan audio drama. He has five videos, all openings and trailers.
Star Trek: Pioneer Opening Season 6 (version 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRCc27Y6bpk&feature=related
Here's the whole list: http://www.youtube.co/view_play_list?p=A32BDDEE56AFFE6A
Star Trek: Pioneers (audio series) http://darkerprojects.com/pioneers.php
20) Star Trek: The Section 31 Files http://darkerprojects.com/section31.php
21) Star Trek: Solidarity http://forums.hiddenfrontier.com/index.php?showtopic=13982
22) Star Trek: Temporal Investigations(an audio series and a RPG) http://www.temporal-investigations.com/
23) Star Trek: Unity(US) http://www.startrekunity.com/about.html
24) Tales of Death and Honour (audio) http://lstok-silvertongue.blogspot.com/

Some of the above are 'promised' audio dramas rather than actual audio dramas.

 

[Kirok_of_LStok]

Kirok of L'Stok,

Please, call me Kirok

as you know, I started creating a list of links to an assortment of Star Trek drama in June, which became restricted to video when I realized the world of Star Trek Fan drama was easily ten times as large as I thought when I started out. However, I did include Audio Drama in my list of Star Trek Names Not Associated with Star Trek Fan Films, and I have over 20 audio Dramas on that list, vis:
http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/246.html

You have indeed got an interesting miscellany of media there, some I have never seen, but to say that they are audio dramas is not entirely correct

1) Dispatches from the Romulan War http://12daysxmas.thunderdownunder.org/day8.htm

We called them "podbooks but strictly speaking they are a full-cast audio book

9) and 10) Star Trek: Excelsior includes TWO unrelated sets of audio drama. One is a list of audio dramas available on CD about Captain Sulu (TOS era, what I call Golden Age) listed here: http://www.ridgenet.net/~curtdan/Excelsior/Stories.html . The second is the set of audio dramas set in the late TNG/DS9/VOY era, which I call Silver Age, http://www.starshipexcelsior.com/

I think that you'll find that your first reference is a listing of licenced productions about Sulu and the Excelsior rather than fan productions

11) Star Trek: The Expedition http://www.theexpedition.org/ (this includes video trailors)

As far as I know, The Expedition is a fan film project in extended pre-production

14) Star Trek: Mirror Wars (audio; reported to be available only from iTunes.

From their home page, this seems to be a fan fiction series. I can't find any info about audio although more power to him if he wants to try.

15) Star Trek: Mission of Mercy http://www.freewebs.com/ussmedstar/

Another fan film in pre-production I believe, but forging ahead now they have a new composer

18) Star Trek: Phoenix http://forums.hiddenfrontier.com/index.php?showtopic=14372

Another fan film I believe you'll find, this time arguably producing since they have five vignettes on line

19) Star Trek: Pioneer (audio series) Star Trek: Pioneer Filmmaker is http://www.youtube.com/user/tbcfilms but he speaks of them as 'related to my fan fiction series.' 4 of the 5 are under 2 minutes. These are just trailers and teasers for a fan audio drama. He has five videos, all openings and trailers.
Star Trek: Pioneer Opening Season 6 (version 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRCc27Y6bpk&feature=related
Here's the whole list: http://www.youtube.co/view_play_list?p=A32BDDEE56AFFE6A
Star Trek: Pioneers (audio series) http://darkerprojects.com/pioneers.php

Two entirely different projects as I think you are saying. The former seems to be a video trailer for a fan fiction series, uh, I think, but the second reference, to the ST Pioneers now lodged in the archives of Darker Projects, was started as an independant production by Kevin Cho in 2003, making it the second Trek fan audio drama behind ST S31, which unfortunately ended on a cliff-hanger when school pressure forced him out of the genre.

21) Star Trek: Solidarity http://forums.hiddenfrontier.com/index.php?showtopic=13982

Thanks, didn't know about this one. It appears to be in pre-production although without a permanent home on the net

22) Star Trek: Temporal Investigations(an audio series and a RPG) http://www.temporal-investigations.com/

VERY impressive website and supporting media - plenty of supporting media here! I didn't realise they had their first episode released, just downloaded it.

24) Tales of Death and Honour (audio) http://lstok-silvertongue.blogspot.com/

Another full-cast audio book since the fool of an author can't seem to wrap his miniscule mind around writing an audio drama without a narrator. [Memo to mods: that's me talking to myself. Its ok, I do it all the time and don't often get offended, drives our cat crazy when I change voices though]

Those were some interesting links, B, but I really should be writing. Here's a couple of blasts from the past you might not have ...
Aw, bulls pup and chewing gum! Star Trek: Foundation and Trek Wars: The Furry Conflict both seem to have disappeared from the net! I'll have to see if I can get permission to mirror their old files.

Good luck

K

 

[Barbreader]

Kirok, my website is aimed at the watcher, who may wish to look over what's coming, and what may be available in audio, games, novels, comic books, what have you, but they can go to BBs and news outlets for that. The newbie watcher is likely to not know where to look, or where to start. Once he (or she, although let's be real, most of the people interested in this stuff are "he"s) finds Star Trek Reviewed, s/he can either just watch the stuff I rate highly, and move on, or grunge through all or any part of it.

I have been amused at how a website like mine that just seeks to "Bag and Tag" can be useful to both sides of an issue. So I asked some Gay Trekkies about labeling the Fan Trek featuring gay subjects by putting their name in purple, how they felt about it, and they thought it was a great way for them to direct their friends to 'the good stuff.' Christian Trekkies are equally happy to skip those shows. (I am neither gay nor a Christian). It is theoretically possible that I could eventually get to the point that audio drama is incorporated into the website, but I am no longer promising that as I was when I started out, simply because it's a promise that is at least two, and possibly five years off, and which may, in fact, NEVER happen. Trekkie Central is including audio drama in their listings, which are laid out in a more internet-savvy way. http://www.trekkiecentral.info/

I just realized I don't have Henglaar, MD in my listing. I have it under Hidden Frontier as an audio drama there, but not under Star Trek Names. It should be in both places, since Star Trek: Grissom, also a HF production, is in both places.

Even with limiting myself to video, I have a ton of videos to review that I haven't placed, and an even larger number that I have placed but not watched and reviewed.

Now, on a item by item basis:

I have had other producers of audio complain to me about your distinction between audio books and audio drama, and object to it. I suspect your distinction with podcasts would also be disputed by some when you suggest they are not 'audio drama.' I decided to stay out of it, so I'm sorry that I have to offend somebody... fight among yourselves, no bat'leths in the house, please.

Because Star Trek: Excelsior can be mistaken for Star Trek: Excelsior (gee, can't figure out how that might happen) I include the licenced production. The primary purpose of this particular article is to help people sort out what they've found.

I have received a private e-mail from Star Trek: The Expedition that they are no longer planning a fan film, but instead hope to produce an audio drama. That e-mail is quoted on my website, if you click through to the listing there, which also includes some links to Role Playing Games, novels, and an assortment of other things labeled 'Star Trek'.

Romulan War... see my issue with your issue, supra.

Mirror Wars. I may have seen the note about audio someplace having to do with itunes downloads. If I find it again, I'll add the link to my article.

I have checked the audio provided at Star Trek: Mission of Mercy and they are just sound effects. They are already listed also as a fan film company with no fan films, so I just have to delete them from the 'other things' listing... and I have.

Star Trek: Phoenix has a podcast called, The Com Badge. Well, I hadn't listened to it before you objected, and it is, indeed, not audio drama. I am removing it from my 'other things' listing.

Indeed, the listing is in alphabetical order, and Star Trek: Pioneer and Star Trek: Pioneers are two different dramas.

Good luck with your audio book... drama... whatever. I'm just going to list these things and stick to video!

 

[Danlav05]

Just spitballing an idea here. Suppose that a couple of Star Trek audio groups decided to do a loose "season" of Doctor Who crossover adventures. Create a Doctor, and pair this Doctor with a Starfleet companion. The TARDIS could take them into different eras, meeting different crews, across six or seven episodes from different groups, with an overarching story of a threat the Doctor confronts in each time period and on each ship. Such a project would bring attention to different audio groups from fans who might not be familiar with the various projects. It would also gain the attention of Doctor Who audio fans. I don't know how the logistics would work, or if there would be any interest among the audio producers for such a project. Just a thought.

I love this idea! Or the TARDIS gets stuck on a Starfleet vessel, ie UNIT in the 70s. Maybe the Doctor could could agree to work, again in a Science capacity, working with a certain crewmember who of course plays the companion role.

Then the TARDIS takes off, but it still ties to the arc. I am a budding writer, and as as much an avid Whovian and Trekkie (a TrekWhovian?? A Whotrekkie? A Whotrekker?) I'd be interested in working with people on such an idea. It'd be cool to hear something like the Klingons getting involved in the Sontaran-Rutan War and the Doctor trying to break it off, stories like that.

The Trek and Who universes are quite different, so it would be enormus fun piecing together an alternate merged universe.

I did listen to some of the S31 Files and a couple of the HF related stuff, but I guess some of the ideas don't take my fancy, sorry to offend any of the audio makers out there.

 

[Kirok_of_LStok]

I have had other producers of audio complain to me about your distinction between audio books and audio drama, and object to it. I suspect your distinction with podcasts would also be disputed by some when you suggest they are not 'audio drama.' I decided to stay out of it, so I'm sorry that I have to offend somebody... fight among yourselves, no bat'leths in the house, please.

I'll start by saying that if anything I have written has been taken as criticism of your work then you are mistaken for such was not my intention. I welcome any efforts to draw attention to fan productions and if I had any serious critique of your work I would send it to you privately. I have been known to stand against what I feel to be wrong on occasion but there is no such issue here.
As regards the distinction between audio book and audio drama, I am merely following established convention and it would be off-topic for me to go into detail about it here. Unless anyone wants to discuss how the use of a narrator on audio drama might make them more appealing to modern listeners? And for the record my weapon of choice in any battle of wits is the barbed epithet.

Good luck with your audio book... drama... whatever. I'm just going to list these things and stick to video!

Thank you and may you also live long and ... y'know.

K

 

[BolianAuthor]

I have two primary reasons, one of them only applicable to podcast productions.

One, I have to truly believe the voices belong to Star Trek characters. Allow me to explain. Even if the characters are original, I have to believe that the voices belong, for instance, a Captain character should have a mature and commanding voice, etc. But a lot of audio productions are voiced by those who make them, and not trained voice actors, and the lack of polished voice acting shows.

Two, if it's a podcast type of series, the answer is as simple as the fact that I'm lazy, and don't update my podcasts regularly, so I'd be bound to miss quite a bit. So, I just prefer not to follow something I can't really keep up with.

 

[Kirok_of_LStok]

I have two primary reasons, one of them only applicable to podcast productions.

One, I have to truly believe the voices belong to Star Trek characters. Allow me to explain. Even if the characters are original, I have to believe that the voices belong, for instance, a Captain character should have a mature and commanding voice, etc. But a lot of audio productions are voiced by those who make them, and not trained voice actors, and the lack of polished voice acting shows.

That's fair enough - we are conditioned by Picard, Sisko and Janeway to expect strong, charismatic voices. The two that standout in this respect are Mark Bruzee as Rupert Trask in ST: Lost Frontier and Tim Renshaw as Captain Edwards in ST: The Continuing Mission.

Two, if it's a podcast type of series, the answer is as simple as the fact that I'm lazy, and don't update my podcasts regularly, so I'd be bound to miss quite a bit. So, I just prefer not to follow something I can't really keep up with.

Another tick in favour of a season CD/Download?

K

 

[MikeH92467]

Just a note in passing about the use of a Narrator: At Star Trek: Excelsior (the one at www.starshipexcelsior.com) we started off with a Narrator (that would be me), but as we further developed the show, I think we developed a consensus that it really wasn't needed. It also created problems in post production that we didn't want to deal with. So now, the Narrator is pretty much relegated to quick intros and closing credits. Even though the decision cost me some exposure (hey I've got an ego too!) I really think it helped make our show flow better and actually improved the overall coherence and I still get the occasional character role.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

I think Lindley has a point. I can imagine people listening to audio Trek on the way to and form work or school in the car. I don't own a car, myself, but if I did, and I got past the 22 minute radio news broadcast, audio Trek might be a possibility if I could burn whole CD at a time off the web and bring them into the car.

You mean like Star Trek: Defiant? Three CD's with a total of 39 episodes, about 19 hours in full 128kbps sound. Strangely enough though they don't have a CD cover and label for it, which is funny because their episodes each have great cover art by Xaq Bazit.

I think there are others but Defiant are the group that spring to mind. Interesting point though - a professional looking presentation could lift the public perception of audio drama.

Star Trek: The Continuing Mission is another example, now that I think of it, both for the quality of their show and its presentation. Perhaps producers should audition for their webmaster and graphic artists as well as their Voice Actors?

K

I just wanted to put in my two bits about STTCM. I reviewed the series for SciFiPulse.net a while back, and I was greatly impressed with the quality of stories and audio work.

And my suggestion as to where to start is ... at the beginning and go from there. (Obvious, I know)

I started listening to audio dramas when Shatner began producing his own Kirk novels, and he also read a condensed version of the books on CD. It's as close as I've come to having a new Kirk movie in a long while.

That is one heck of a list of fan audio series, Barbreader! I write a column at the previously mentioned SciFiPulse.net called Fan Film Friday, and I review fan productions from videos to audio dramas though I've fallen behind in recent weeks. I'll have to try some of them out and see how they do!