Why Doctor Who is a MESS

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Shaka Zulu, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. starsuperion

    starsuperion Commodore Commodore

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    Well said.

    But for the kid in me, I rather like all these latest B&M sets..
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Boy that classic and BF stuff really sells! I have to battle in a bidding war just to own one of em, across the pond ere'.
     
  2. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Who’s Jean Luke Picard?
     
  3. starsuperion

    starsuperion Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry thats captain Jean Luc Picard
     
  4. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    [pedantic] Jean-Luc Picard [/pedantic]
     
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  5. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe we should watch season 2 before we decide if we even want them back. If the show doesn't improve you might as make the change and try something else. Jason
     
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  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I'm not sure it could get worse, but it's no way near bad enough to quit.
     
  7. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    I doubt I would quit as well. Once you like someting I keep wanting to give chances. Jason
     
  8. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I might not always agree with everything you say but....those really are nice toys. I wondered what you meant by B M sets...blimey.
    That second one is what my dapol toys should have looked liked.
    It looks like there’s more classic who toys than current era.

    It is of course possible Chibnall didn’t have time to cast an eye over licensing or work for a meeting with the toy people. (Which we know RTD did, and presumably Moffat.)
     
  9. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That’s the thing. I have stuck with Who (with a minor drift during the wilderness years when I discovered music, nightclubs and girls...in that order) for something like 38 years. It’s a family thing even. The idea that people who have similar experiences, or me, are going to just totally give up is ridiculous.
    Religion or football teams are the only suitable comparison.
    Arsenal haven’t won a sausage since moving stadium, they still fill it though...and fans may grumble (it’s pretty much the definition) but they don’t give up. They may bitch about management decisions, they still wear the scarf. Some may give up going...why spend all that money on a ticket?....but they follow the news or watch it down the pub now and then, hoping things will get better.
    Doctor Who has gone through a Man Utd phase of late...it kept winning, and all over the world there were fans of the winner.
    Now it’s not quite back to its Accrington Stanley phase, but it’s looking a bit Leeds Utd.
    I think that’s the difference between ‘someone who likes something’ and ‘a fan’.
    One of em anyway.

    I think some people don’t get that that. They are used to be younger, smaller fandoms, or being part of so many at once, that it’s almost a trend thing, a fashion they like for the moment. That does sound awfully like a true-fan and casual argument, and I suppose in a way it is.
     
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  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Neurochemically addicted.
     
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  11. Ripped Shirt

    Ripped Shirt Ensign Red Shirt

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    The current iteration of Who is an odd one. The writing isn't great, potentially interesting issues like Rory's co-ordination problems seem to only apply when the stories needs them to apply, and I have no idea who Whittaker's Doctor is. Each previous incarnation brought something a little different to what we already know, but at the moment she seems to be a poor photocopy of all the modern era Doctors mashed together. I found myself sitting there thinking 'Tennant, Tennant, that's Smith, a bit of Eccleston, there's some Capaldi'. Nothing new. I do remember reading somewhere that Chibnall was keen for Whittaker to avoid watching the old shows including her immediate predecessors - if true, that was a mistake. It looked like she was working from a one page precis of the character - 'Oooh, I'm mad, me! Crazy!'. I gave up on it about two thirds of the way through, but I'll give it another go when the new season comes along to see if there's been any progression. It's all a bit bland and simplistic at the moment - I get the feeling that the character development process didn't get much further than 'the Doctor is a woman', like that should just blind us to everything else.

    On the plus side, Bradley Walsh is excellent. There seemed to be a bit of worry about his casting but he blew that away.
     
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  12. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    I mean, you really should be able to see some snippets of other Doctors in the character, I mean technically they're the same person?

    I'm trying to think what Capaldi bought to the table that was new? I mean there's some Pertwee in there, some Hartnell, some Colin, but what was unique to that Doctor? Matt was Troughton and Peter stuck in a blender with a sliver of Tennant and a hint of Tom. Tennant is a bit of McGann, a bit of Pertwee, maybe a little Tom, not as clear cut I grant you, but I'd argue the last Doctor to truly bring anything radically new to the role was Eccleston.
     
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  13. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think sometimes the things brought forward are things we may not have seen in a while. A lot of Sylvs quiet anger found its way into the new Who, mainly through the writing.
    I think Smith brought a lot more self reflection, especially in the quiet anger or sadness moments, Tennant was more kinetic than anything we’ve had before, and Capaldi...whilst very close to previous Doctors (sometimes he was pulling a Tom Baker as portrayed by Jon Culshaw impression.) also brought a different spin when angry or sad, but also a jealousy we haven’t seen before. There’s also stuff where he is much more mocking...in a different way to we had seen with Colin Baker. (Zygon speech.)

    The thing is...you don’t have to be totally one hundred percent original, in fact, you can not bring anything original, as long as there’s maybe a slightly different spin in with the tribute act. It’s not enough just to go with physical quirks or accent quirks either (as lots of planets have a north.)
    Some of these come from writing though.
    There are new things Jodie brings, but I think it’s through the writing, and they don’t really work. (Nothing is going to date harder than ‘fam’. There’s a reason the Seventh Doctor only said ‘wicked’ once.) It’s a down with the kids social worker vibe. She lacks a sense of age that even the youngest Doctors have brought to the table at some point.
     
  14. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    Fam was bad, but then so was Eleven's "Who da man?"

    Down with the kids social worker vibe is a good description, there's something of a slightly hippy art teacher about her as well (the outfit screams it in fact) and that's fine; U-Boat captain, Spiv, absent minded professor, magician, art teacher...it makes as much sense as anything else, but I completely agree re the age thing, she gives no sense of having lived, what 2000 years now? Again it might be down to the writing, similarly her lack of agency. The pacifism doesn't bother me, to a greater or lesser extent that's always been part of the Doctor's DNA, she's just maybe further along the non-violent spectrum that most- which means if she ever does pick up a gun it's going to be one hell of a shock (I wish I trusted Chibnall to be that forward thinking).

    Being honest, at the moment I think Jodie is an ok Doctor, I think if the writing were better she could be a good Doctor but I fear she lacks the intangible x-factor that'd make her a great one (and for the benefit of the cheap seats that x-factor isn't a dick)
     
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  15. starsuperion

    starsuperion Commodore Commodore

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    IDK. Its the writing for me. When the it was 1st announced a female Doctor, with the ceiling breaking bumper, and all the feminist hoopla associated with it, I was dead set against it, because it was the identity politics and PC writing, I was dreading. Anyone at the time who was paying attention could see it coming.

    I was skeptical and open minded tho. I would have loved to see the Doctor being mad, confused and trying to figure out an alien conspiracy, would have kicked it off pretty well. Hoodie, back pack, weird tech invented by her, tracking an alien conspiracy, and acting aloof and mad. Then eventually running into each companion. An alien threat, would have been a great way to kick off. More of a tank girl vibe. The Doctor lands on earth. Finds portals to a future dystopian earth, tries to stop its coming in present day earth. Something massive like that. The whole 1st episode would have us believe the Doctor was crazy, and the new crew a second away from having her committed, until the big reveal, and the companions seeing what she was actually battling.,would have been epic. But Timmy the tooth monster was kind of a let down. TBH. The story and writing didnt allow for Jodie to be a really great and epic doctor with a 2000 year old history and experience. It fell flat, and remained so throughout the series. Kablam was about the only episode that I think felt like NuWho. After that, I was pretty bored. The fears I had early on, bore out. Bad father, trump stand in. Brexit references more then once. The evils of the British and partition, time traveling racists, the sexism of the past with witches. Mostly the series took shots at humanity, with aliens being morally superior. It was new, but it was also a direction that ultimately didn't kick off, unless you were a fan of rhe ideological push. So for me, I'm kinda hoping they make the Doctor more like Tank Girl or Rey (without the Mary sue factor) and season 12 is more of an adventure, and not so much heart to hearts in a coffee shop.
     
  16. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not TG. Wrong thing for the doctor, too much sexiness.
    Edwardian steampunk adventuress.
    Charlie Pollard xD
     
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  17. Gavin70

    Gavin70 Commander Red Shirt

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    I always thought Tennant had taken a lot of inspiration from Davison.
     
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  18. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mostly in the outfit area, as seen in the special.
    Though there are elements.
     
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  19. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, I might have missed something.

    Do we have year by year sales breakdowns available for Dr Who merchandise?
     
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  20. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But why? Shouldn't we be celebrating diversity? Take for example; discrimination against People of Color. If you have two equally qualified candidates for a job, one of them being a black man and the other white, without stuff like the Equal Opportunity Act, among other progressive legislation, what incentive would any employer have had to specifically choose the minority candidate?
    It's true that we're a far cry from the blatant discrimination of the 50's and 60's; but there is still plenty of less subtle discrimination out there. The whole purpose of being 'politically correct' is to treat ALL people, regardless of race or gender equally.
     
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