I know we live in a world where 90% of the population have lost the ability to separate truth from lies but the whole thing clearly sounds like the invention of the "Make Doctor Who Great Again" branch of fandom. Gaiman has been 100% clear that he will never take the the job of show runner on any television series. ('Good Omens' was a once off to honour Terry.)
Why Doctor Who is a MESS
- Thread starter Shaka Zulu
- Start date
I know we live in a world where 90% of the population have lost the ability to separate truth from lies but the whole thing clearly sounds like the invention of the "Make Doctor Who Great Again" branch of fandom. Gaiman has been 100% clear that he will never take the the job of show runner on any television series. ('Good Omens' was a once off to honour Terry.)
He also stepped in on American Gods.
I don’t think he would do it.
I can see crazy unhappy fans pushing the idea.
I can see a Beeb exec deciding to try it with a boatload of cash and a ‘save doctor who’ plea.
I still don’t think he would do it, especially under these circumstances.
The problem with this one is the bits that are plausible. And that the people originally bringing it up apparently have a good record with leaks before. And leaks are just rumours that turn out to be true.
Even if you love, worship, adore the current production team etc...it would be delusional to say it’s been plain sailing. We literally got an extra year of Moffat because of the lack of plain sailing. On the other hand, it’s probably great for gavin and Stacey fans.
"Make Doctor Who great again?" Is that even a thing in the fandom now? Christ! Can't we discuss the show without everything relating back to Brexit and 2016? Sheeesh!! You'd think this show was some kind of political football.
I miss the days of a back and forth over the Doctors choice of clothing, or the nature of the Daleks, or technological ramifications in canon. But not this whole political back and forth. Its just so toxic.
That sort of call back to stuff like that should be scrubbed from our discussions. Not used as a club to alienate people, and beat them over the head.
I miss the days of a back and forth over the Doctors choice of clothing, or the nature of the Daleks, or technological ramifications in canon. But not this whole political back and forth. Its just so toxic.
That sort of call back to stuff like that should be scrubbed from our discussions. Not used as a club to alienate people, and beat them over the head.
The Silurian episode, Cold Blood, with the future Amy and Rory on the Hill Top, in the distance waving, is set in 2020...They'd know about the Brexit conclusion and the US Election 2020 results (But then so does the Doctor and Zoe Heriot, Stephen Taylor, others.) ...Although after the Master killed the US President, and other Problems , Whoniverse politics do not reflect the real world, moving forward.
Sure makes that dig about UNIT being unable to help due to budget cuts over Brexit seem ridiculously placed into that special episode now. But What ever. Stupidity in writing seems to be well accepted by the Doctor Who can do no wrong crowd. I wonder if this was the same attitude back in the JNT era...
JNT would have walked across hot coals for a Christmas special...or a New Years special...and probably wouldn’t have had a line in about how families need to turn off the TV and talk to each other smack in the middle of the tension of the climax.
Though maybe. Vengeance on Varos was a bit scathing of screen addiction, and predicted the 21st century in an odd manner.
These rumours were flying about last year as well weren't they?
I can see some possible truth in the Chibnall side of things. It might just be that he isn't the kind of gregarious self-publicist that RTD or SM are, but given he's been a fan forever he never seems that jazzed to have the job, and the , for me at least, somewhat meh and aimless season he gave us would seem to tally with that, but maybe he's acting under too many constraints from the BBC, or maybe the series is exactly what he wanted?
Either way my own view is that I don't think he's a good show runner, or certainly not the kind of show runner the series needs, but maybe his next season will prove me wrong. Similarly with Jodie, it isn't that I'm against a female Doctor (quite the opposite) I'm just yet to be convinced she's the right woman. She's a great actress that's clear, I just wish she had the screen presence of someone like Michelle Gomez or Surrane Jones. Too often the Doctor fades into the background a bit.
But happy to be proven wrong. After all, I didn't really start to love Tennant until series 3 or Capaldi till 9 or 10!
I can see some possible truth in the Chibnall side of things. It might just be that he isn't the kind of gregarious self-publicist that RTD or SM are, but given he's been a fan forever he never seems that jazzed to have the job, and the , for me at least, somewhat meh and aimless season he gave us would seem to tally with that, but maybe he's acting under too many constraints from the BBC, or maybe the series is exactly what he wanted?
Either way my own view is that I don't think he's a good show runner, or certainly not the kind of show runner the series needs, but maybe his next season will prove me wrong. Similarly with Jodie, it isn't that I'm against a female Doctor (quite the opposite) I'm just yet to be convinced she's the right woman. She's a great actress that's clear, I just wish she had the screen presence of someone like Michelle Gomez or Surrane Jones. Too often the Doctor fades into the background a bit.
But happy to be proven wrong. After all, I didn't really start to love Tennant until series 3 or Capaldi till 9 or 10!
I know, right? Those fans who freaked out when a woman was announced sort of ruined it for everyone.
Which one was the woman?
Or the fans that equate not thinking a female Doctor Who was a good idea, Must tie them to mysoginism, or spinning that out into further political views, by deliberately using a phrase to equate it with a certain viewpoint in US politics.
Again, I point to the Davison fracas on Twitter.
I also point that if it’s the idea embodied in the silly words, groups of fans have been wanting to make Doctor Who Great Again since probably 1981. If I was being cheeky I would suggest the very first regeneration and mild format change, but really Fan level disapproval didn’t really seem to be a thing till fandom matured around that JNT hand over period. Then it worked backwards in time, all wibbly wobbly, to the Pertwee hate of the nineties.
But yes, fans can be such dicks to each other can’t they?
I think it's fair to note that I said "rumors"
It is possible that Jodie and Chibnall won't come back for a third series. I think that the constant spreading it out with a several month hiatus doesn't do the show justice. Make the gaps shorter, make the writing tighter.
Get a new executive producer who knows Who and the business to take over the reins. RTD's first couple of seasons were fantastic.
It is possible that Jodie and Chibnall won't come back for a third series. I think that the constant spreading it out with a several month hiatus doesn't do the show justice. Make the gaps shorter, make the writing tighter.
Get a new executive producer who knows Who and the business to take over the reins. RTD's first couple of seasons were fantastic.
Some fans are sexist. Some fans are stuck in the idea that Doctor Who can only be how they think it should be. Some fans are stuck on the idea that only boys can look up to male characters.
Instead of realizing they are stuck, reflecting on that, they freak out. Calling it political. Calling it “virtue signaling” and “SJW Doctor Who”
Just because we are nerds and geeks doesn’t mean we are magically better than anyone else.
It’s good to see you looking it at from both sides.
Meh. Perhaps I don’t like the hypocrisy of a poster coming in bemoaning how fandom has tuned into “Make Doctor Who Great Again” and wishes it was like the old days, when, in fact, they threw the biggest sexist fit when Whitaker was announced.
Some fans refuse to acknowledge that merchandise sales based on the female Doctor have been horrible, and since its the merchandise the BBC gets its profits from with respect to Doctor who, over the BBC licensing fee for the Tele, then the idea that little boys just don't want to play the Doctor because they can't relate, must be just sexist fan theory or something. Hmmm..seems odd, doesn't it? That boys wouldn't want to play with girl toys. Almost like thats why there was always a separate market for them in the first place?? No, That's Crazy!
Funny too how all the newest releases from B&M have nothing to,do with the new 13th Doctor..you'd think since the series is so successful, that 13th Doctor Merchandise would be flying off the shelf.
Weird...
I mean its on thing to,look up to,a female as a hero like a male, its another to,role play as them when playing with toys, especially for young boys who want to see themselves as a male hero with said toys. That's insane! Never heard of..
Last edited:
They could always play with the sidekicks, like Rory or Ryan... isn't that good enough?
But, yeah, won't someone think of the boys!!!
What a world we might be living in if we spent this much handwringing on what girls need...
Actually in the toy and childhood clothing market, there absolutely are less ‘boys’ products vs ‘girls’ products.
But I don’t think the merchandise sales are hugely related to gender of children.
I think it’s because the show is drifting away from children in general. (I am not talking about children of grown ups who watch the show. Who fans who say ‘my daughter/niece loves the new doctor!’ Are ten a penny.)
In terms of toys and children...well, I am pretty sure if I was a little girl (of the stereotyped kind toy manufacturers tend towards) I would rather have the doll with six bajillion accessories the same as my mates have, and not a Doctor Who one that doesn’t have that.
Who merchandise is drifting away from something kids will want, and has been since Capaldi.
General audience kids don’t seem to be into who. (I work with children.) They were until a few years ago.
But..while me might apply sarcasm to the grown-up end of the argument, it’s very different at the children’s end, and particularly from a UK perspective. (Whether talking about availability of positive role models or merchandising, or indeed access to and appropriate level of education...it’s an interesting topic.)
Edit: forgot to mention, role-playing was specifically mentioned. I think that needs thinking about (trust men when I say there are some parents who think action figures in general are too close to dolls for their little boys. Conversely, it’s basically Who and Thunderbirds if you don’t want the ‘little soldier’ indoctrination kicking in, and thunderbirds is close. Good luck getting that 13th Doctor Sonic Screwdriver little Jack!)
Ironically the BBC has a model for this. It’s called ‘how many Sarah Jane Adventures toys ended up in poundland’.
Now, that means they aren’t being driven by commercial forces, or thought they could broaden their market, or assumed another would make them more money. Tbh, they have always, always been crap at merchandising Who.
The other problem is that under Moffat and Smith, you had the boys Sonic (The Doctor) and the girls (River Song) in the current set-up I would hate to be any boy or girl relegated to playing the companion. Again, I don’t think Chibnall is aware of playground dynamics the way both RTD and Moffat vocally were.
Last edited:
https://www.argos.co.uk/search/doctor-who/?clickOrigin=searchbar:home:term:doctor+who
This tells you every last thing you need to know about the state of Who merchandise.
Woolworths going bosoms skyward years ago almost certainly didn’t help either.
Edit:
It gets more intriguing. Check out the rebranding under the old ‘classic’ who for recent toys, and the lack of Chibnall era stuff. It’s astonishing.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Doctor...dc&qid=1565632782&rnid=1642204031&ref=sr_pg_1
And again, Amazon is definitely wiping the floor with brick and mortar retailers, but it’s still not the first thing people in general think of when doing their Xmas shopping. Older people..the nans and grandads...still like to go and buy in shops. So do the mums and dads if push comes to shove, not to mention the preponderance of vouchers.
Astonishing.
This tells you every last thing you need to know about the state of Who merchandise.
Woolworths going bosoms skyward years ago almost certainly didn’t help either.
Edit:
It gets more intriguing. Check out the rebranding under the old ‘classic’ who for recent toys, and the lack of Chibnall era stuff. It’s astonishing.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Doctor...dc&qid=1565632782&rnid=1642204031&ref=sr_pg_1
And again, Amazon is definitely wiping the floor with brick and mortar retailers, but it’s still not the first thing people in general think of when doing their Xmas shopping. Older people..the nans and grandads...still like to go and buy in shops. So do the mums and dads if push comes to shove, not to mention the preponderance of vouchers.
Astonishing.
Last edited:
They had shows for that. After the initial charter of the show being educational.,it quickly became associated as a boys brand, with girl appeal. Not a boys brand solely. Not a girl's brand solely, and not a girl brand with boy appeal. Now, for boys to want to satiate their male tendency with hormones playing a role, its neurochemical processes are such that it makes you strive to be the best uniform of primitive genetic competition. Thus boys always want to play with the hero the main character. That's why Optimus Prime is so popular. That's why Captain Kirk was so popular. That's why Jean Luke Picard it's so popular. Superman leader of the Justice League is so popular. Blake of Blake's 7. And so on... Basic biology is all it really is. Marketing a show in devising a show around said Target means that you will always have a fan base. Which the last 50 years has been true. But nobody can deny that the recent toy cells have not been as they once were. You have to believe the licensees that hold the licenses to produce these products would want to make money as they had in the past off of this brand the fact the brand isn't pulling in those sales anymore proves a certain extent that doctor who is on the decline. But it's not something that's written in stone. Even the recent articles we've seen where they're talking about going back to the RTD type era bringing characters and monsters that are associated with the RTD era is proof enough that what they didn't season 11 wasn't working season 12 has to be different in order to achieve a better level of sales for the merchandise.
Similar threads
