Why Doctor Who is a MESS

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Shaka Zulu, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    Basically, the YouTuber NetPix thinks that the current Doctor Who show with Jodie Whittaker is a mess, and is not as good as previous seasons under the previous showrunners who came before Chris Chibnall:



    Personally, I think that he's full of hot air, and is just another video blogger out to bitch about current media, but what do others think about what he's said in the video?
     
  2. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don’t really give that kind of YouTube video airtime, but your basic summary of events in your post is....entirely accurate, in my opinion. It is a mess, and is not as good as previous show runners...or even script editors goin back to the classic era.
     
  3. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    ...nope.

    Why even bother looking at these stupid videos?
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Annually I used to get 13 episodes of Doctor Who and a movie, 13 episodes of Torchwood, and 12 episodes of Sarah Jane.

    38 episodes and movie is not too much to ask for?

    Gimme.
     
  5. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    Nope. Not going to click that bait.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Hardly "annually." The only year you got 38 episodes and a movie was 2008. Here's how things break down for 2006-2011, the period in which Torchwood and SJA were airing.

    2006
    DW: 13 episodes, 1 special
    TW: 11 episodes
    Total: 24 episodes, 1 special

    2007
    DW: 13 episodes, 1 special
    TW: 2 episodes
    SJA: 10 episodes, 1 special
    Total: 25 episodes, 2 specials

    2008
    DW: 13 episodes, 1 special
    TW: 13 episodes
    SJA: 12 episodes
    Total: 38 episodes, 1 special

    2009
    DW: 3 specials
    TW: 5 episodes
    SJA: 12 episodes
    Total: 17 episodes, 3 specials

    2010
    DW: 13 episodes, 2 specials
    SJA: 12 episodes
    Total: 25 episodes, 2 specials

    2011
    DW: 13 episodes, 1 special
    TW: 10 episodes
    SJA: 6 episodes
    Total: 29 episodes, 1 special
     
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  7. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    There you go again, dragging facts into the discussion.
     
  8. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Count me in as passing on the video. No reason to care what some random person on the internet who has a webcam thinks!
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Youtube Algorithm will assume you're a redpiller and drown you in misogyny.

    I think Doctor Who turned to poo, and never recovered, when Capaldi took over. :)

    Cool.

    You may not have counted Doctor Who: The Infinite Quest and Doctor Who: Dreamland, which were animated, also what about Doctor Who Confidential and Torchwood Declassified?
     
  10. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Admiral

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    After watching half the video, I have the impression that I really haven't missed anything by not bothering with this show anymore (Capaldi's second-last season and the special with the First Doctor are the last stories I've seen).

    Those who are smugly dismissing the video without watching it are missing the fact that this guy has some good points when he contrasts Classic Who with nuWho.
     
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  11. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    I like the show just fine as it is and I'm not really interested in clicking on a monetized link to hear why I'm wrong. Besides, as Guy said, if I click on it then I'll be deluged with similar content in my recommendations.
     
  12. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Admiral

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    You can always dismiss the channel from your recommendations. It's actually easier than the Amazon recommendations (for some reason they keep recommending stuff to me that I already own).
     
  13. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just almost never like the format, it’s like watching the broom cupboard, and it usually takes ages for anyone to make their points...so I rarely watch all of such videos of any stripe.
    NuWho would be a goto for comparing chibnalls season, because of his infamous moments back then. Telling him he’s made late Eric Saward look good, and Cartmel is still knocking him into a cocked hat would probably sting a little. But it’s true.
     
  14. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ok. Got halfway through in fits and starts. He’s not wrong about a lot of things in his mildly sixth form approach and presentation.
    But I give up, because though he sort of knows his stuff, he sort of doesn’t (show wasn’t cancelled in 86, Sylv wasn’t the eighth Doctor, and the Colour of the Daleks wasn’t part of Remembrance as such...it was racial purity for them in that. I let the mcgann description slide as it’s likely a joke.)

    He’s not entirely wrong. His ideas on the doctor as a gendered character are very...nu-who informed. His ideas about gendered characters seem...odd, too. Germophobe as a feminine trait?

    I mean I am sort of in the Davison camp over the Doctors gender anyway (long explanation if requested, but short version is... non-violent male heroes for kids, relatively asexual, are in very short supply. Good role models for little boys are also somewhat thin on the ground, in UK tv particularly. You don’t share a cake by taking it away.) Though tried with Whitaker same as I did with Smith and Capaldi...I came round to Capaldi, eventually, but Whitaker is being a very hard sell for some of the reasons this video mentions....poor poor writing and a complete lack of understanding of what the show is/became, and an adherence to a poorly formed idea of what it should be, at the very least, it’s lacking it’s magic and somehow manages to look expensive and cheap at the same time.
     
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  15. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Even if we do count those, your original claim of "38 episodes and a movie annually" is still wrong.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh?

    Season 2 (1964), had 39 episodes, which is almost the same as 38 + 1.
     
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  17. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Let’s allow the hyperbole. The fundamental point that it’s taking longer to produce less, and that the quality is...debatable as well, stands I think. I haven’t been so bored in a new Doctors first story since The Twin Dilemma, and that had many much better things going on, even if they didn’t work out. I mean I could see what they were going for with the Peri neck wringing, even if I didn’t like it...but did the security guard death do anything at all useful? And traditionally a Doctor should look better once they get their own outfit. Jodie looked better in Capaldis costume than her own. She needs to sylvester that costume quick time.
     
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  18. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    I don't have time to watch the whole video right now, but when I watched the beginning, I believe it is the one I did watch a while ago. If it is that video, I personally would not say "he's full of hot air". Although we might not agree with everything of what he says, I do believe he is giving an honest view based on his opinion. With any form of art, opinion is going to "happen". I seem to remember him saying some negative things about “Demons Of The Punjab,” which I felt was overcritical given that this was an outstanding episode that had the emotional impact comparable to the best of previous seasons.

    My own personal view about this season with Jodie Whittaker is that the writing (with the exception of “Demons Of The Punjab,”) is not as good as previous seasons. I think this is what opens it up to criticism. Keep in mind that the standard of writing for the best episodes of the past seasons (which is a high percentage) is "outstanding" and so you can say it is "sub par" without it being an insult. So, I think many detractors overstate the problems with this season. So, I would not say "full of hot air", but I might say "overblown", and even considering the negative things I agree with, I'm still going to watch, enjoy and hope for more episodes like “Demons Of The Punjab”.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  19. Doctor Bombay

    Doctor Bombay Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Well, it's an opinion, and opinions are like... well, you know... ;)

    Here's mine: DW has been on a slide since the Matt Smith days. The producers' intent has been to wow us with convuluted plots painted up with uber special effects. Capaldi's era had some great stories interspersed among a sea of bad ones ("Kill The Moon" anyone?), and Whittaker's season is no different.

    On to the semi-controversial, and I say "semi" because it's really a non-issue: a female Doctor. No problem here... I've wanted one for years now, but Jodie ain't it. She's a good actor... loved her in Broadchurch... but she can't carry the load here because she's a straight actor trying to play an eccentric character and she's not wowing me. Now Michelle Gomez would have been perfect for the part, IMO.

    The frustrating thing about discussing this topic just about anywhere on the internet is the plethora of SJWs and virtue signallers who dogpile you if you dare state that this last season just didn't work, that it was chock full of political sticking points beating you over the head. It's tiresome, and I stopped discussing the issue some months ago (except apparently here).
     
  20. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You're quite right about opinions.

    Here's mine - Jodie is doing just fine but Gomez is unwatchably bad, joint first place with Catherine Tate as worst main character casting in Nu Who.
     
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