I think it was mentioned in the novelization that they had tissue samples of humpbacks that had been preserved that could be cloned.
Why do you rank TFF highly?
- Thread starter EnriqueH
- Start date
Or maybe they could get DNA from old umbrellas' whalebones?
A little bit further in the novel and just a few points. I'm to the point where the Enterprise has reached Nimbus III and Chekov is talking to Sybok (basically keeping him occupied while the landing party makes their rescue attempt).
Most of this part follows the movie as we saw it, with a few more details. The novel basically states that the Enterprise-A was a new ship, and not just a refitted older vessel. But it was put together a bit too quickly, hence the issues it was having (it's always possible it was intended to carry another name however, much like the 2nd Defiant on DS9 that was renamed).
Probably the biggest addition in the novel at this point was while Sybok was still waiting for some ship to arrive, J'Onn pays him a visit and notices Sybok looked troubled. He asks Sybok to let him help since Sybok has helped all his followers. Eventually Sybok relents and we see why exactly he was banished from Vulcan. After his mother had died his mother's katra was put in an ark, though without much ceremony since she was dishonored. But she had died before telling him where he could find Sha-Ka-Ree so he hatched a plan to meld with her katra to find the answers he needed. He was on ceremonial guard duty with another adept and he decided on the one year anniversary of her death he would break into the chamber to find her ark. Because he didn't know which of the thousands her ark was he force-ably mind melded with the other adept, causing permanent brain damage, to get the information he needed. Then he melded with his mother, she told him where to find Sha-Ka-Ree and he also was left with the impression that the information was shared to her by God. Then he became unconscious. After the other adepts found him Sybok noticed his mother's katra was no longer with him and her ark was dark (meaning her katra was now consigned to oblivion). He was banished for his actions and he made it his life's goal to find Sha-Ka-Ree to fulfill the promise he made to his mother.
So we do get a lot of information from the novel about what motivated Sybok. His mother had a significant influence on him and had a lot to do with why he wanted to go there.
As I continue on I'll look to see what motivations I can see from Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
Most of this part follows the movie as we saw it, with a few more details. The novel basically states that the Enterprise-A was a new ship, and not just a refitted older vessel. But it was put together a bit too quickly, hence the issues it was having (it's always possible it was intended to carry another name however, much like the 2nd Defiant on DS9 that was renamed).
Probably the biggest addition in the novel at this point was while Sybok was still waiting for some ship to arrive, J'Onn pays him a visit and notices Sybok looked troubled. He asks Sybok to let him help since Sybok has helped all his followers. Eventually Sybok relents and we see why exactly he was banished from Vulcan. After his mother had died his mother's katra was put in an ark, though without much ceremony since she was dishonored. But she had died before telling him where he could find Sha-Ka-Ree so he hatched a plan to meld with her katra to find the answers he needed. He was on ceremonial guard duty with another adept and he decided on the one year anniversary of her death he would break into the chamber to find her ark. Because he didn't know which of the thousands her ark was he force-ably mind melded with the other adept, causing permanent brain damage, to get the information he needed. Then he melded with his mother, she told him where to find Sha-Ka-Ree and he also was left with the impression that the information was shared to her by God. Then he became unconscious. After the other adepts found him Sybok noticed his mother's katra was no longer with him and her ark was dark (meaning her katra was now consigned to oblivion). He was banished for his actions and he made it his life's goal to find Sha-Ka-Ree to fulfill the promise he made to his mother.
So we do get a lot of information from the novel about what motivated Sybok. His mother had a significant influence on him and had a lot to do with why he wanted to go there.
As I continue on I'll look to see what motivations I can see from Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
I remember that part of the novel now. That would have been an amazing addition to the film.
Yeah, it definitely gave some more details about what motivated Sybok. In the movie it's just basically a religious quest. In the novel we learn not only is it more personal then that, but also that Sybok himself has his own secret pain that he's had to deal with.
Ok, I'm now at the point in the novel where they just sent their message to "Starfleet Command" which we know was in fact intercepted by the Klingon vessel (named Okrona in the novel).
The novel is pretty close to the movie in this section with a few exceptions. The novel, like most novelizations, provides a little more detail on the scenes. Also, the conversation in the brig is written a little differently in the movie. In the movie that whole sequence gets downright goofy (the whole "you do not" back and forth about Spock having a brother for instance is almost childish)--whereas in the novel the same points are made but the wording is better, more 'adult' like. For instance, Kirk says at one point Spock can't have a brother because it's not in his personnel file which would be required, but because Sybok was banished he was basically 'erased' from the Vulcan database.
Also, there is a bit more about the Kirk and Scotty coming to terms with the new ship and slowly starting to accept it. For example, when the netting stopped the shuttle Scotty has a bit of a nice moment where he pats the ship and says that if she keeps it up she'll earn her name.
We also see Sulu's pain. He was on a colony planet that was being attacked by pirates. A storekeepers wife was mortally wounded and Sulu decided to try to find help. However he got lost on the way home, delaying him getting help. The wife died and Sulu always blamed himself for that, feeling if he wasn't delayed she might have survived. However, Sybok replays the moments for Sulu and Sulu realized she was dead before he ever left. The delay made no difference.
But the biggest point the novel picks up, and what might interest @STEPhon IT a bit as to her questions about motivation is more details about why Spock cannot just 'shoot' Sybok, beyond him being his half brother. It gives more details about their history together. After Sybok's mother died, he was brought to Sarek and raised as part of the family (this was obviously before he was banished). Spock was 13 at the time and as we know was not accepted by his fellow Vulcans. When Sybok came into the picture he expected Sybok to reject him as well, esp. since Sybok is a full Vulcan himself. However, Sybok was kind to Spock and immediately accepted him as a brother. He was also instrumental in Spock wanting to join Starfleet. Spock at the time expected he would have to follow Sarek's footsteps into diplomacy and Sybok asks Spock what does he want in life? The first time any one ever really asked Spock what he wanted, and not just what was expected of him. Spock never forgot that, and never forgot how Sybok accepted him for who he was.
Also, Kirk asks Spock why didn't he just shoot him in the leg or something, but Spock noted Sybok would never give up and if he shot him he would have had to kill him.
The novel is pretty close to the movie in this section with a few exceptions. The novel, like most novelizations, provides a little more detail on the scenes. Also, the conversation in the brig is written a little differently in the movie. In the movie that whole sequence gets downright goofy (the whole "you do not" back and forth about Spock having a brother for instance is almost childish)--whereas in the novel the same points are made but the wording is better, more 'adult' like. For instance, Kirk says at one point Spock can't have a brother because it's not in his personnel file which would be required, but because Sybok was banished he was basically 'erased' from the Vulcan database.
Also, there is a bit more about the Kirk and Scotty coming to terms with the new ship and slowly starting to accept it. For example, when the netting stopped the shuttle Scotty has a bit of a nice moment where he pats the ship and says that if she keeps it up she'll earn her name.
We also see Sulu's pain. He was on a colony planet that was being attacked by pirates. A storekeepers wife was mortally wounded and Sulu decided to try to find help. However he got lost on the way home, delaying him getting help. The wife died and Sulu always blamed himself for that, feeling if he wasn't delayed she might have survived. However, Sybok replays the moments for Sulu and Sulu realized she was dead before he ever left. The delay made no difference.
But the biggest point the novel picks up, and what might interest @STEPhon IT a bit as to her questions about motivation is more details about why Spock cannot just 'shoot' Sybok, beyond him being his half brother. It gives more details about their history together. After Sybok's mother died, he was brought to Sarek and raised as part of the family (this was obviously before he was banished). Spock was 13 at the time and as we know was not accepted by his fellow Vulcans. When Sybok came into the picture he expected Sybok to reject him as well, esp. since Sybok is a full Vulcan himself. However, Sybok was kind to Spock and immediately accepted him as a brother. He was also instrumental in Spock wanting to join Starfleet. Spock at the time expected he would have to follow Sarek's footsteps into diplomacy and Sybok asks Spock what does he want in life? The first time any one ever really asked Spock what he wanted, and not just what was expected of him. Spock never forgot that, and never forgot how Sybok accepted him for who he was.
Also, Kirk asks Spock why didn't he just shoot him in the leg or something, but Spock noted Sybok would never give up and if he shot him he would have had to kill him.
Moving along in the novel I'm now almost at the end.
I forgot that in the novel Sybok uses his 'power' on Scotty as well. After the, um, uncomfortable scene in sickbay between Scotty and Uhura, Sybok comes in to put Scotty under his spell. We learn Scotty's 'pain' was how tough he was on his nephew in TWOK before he died. He believed Preston stayed at his post because he was afraid Scotty would basically yell at him if he didn't. But Sybok showed him that Preston would have stayed on regardless because of his sense of duty. The reason Sybok needed Scotty was because he needed Scotty to implement his shield design plans to protect this ship from the barrier. He tells Scotty after that is done that he should resume repairs to the transporter as ordered by the captain (in the movie that part was never explained well...Scotty is in sickbay with Uhura, then next time we seem him he is back repairing the transporter).
There is some intrigue on the Klingon ship as well. The 2nd officer wants the 1st officer, Vixis, to kill Klaa because he feels Klaa is deranged for wanting to follow the Enterprise into the Barrier. He believes they will be destroyed. Vixis can't help but agree that Klaa may need to be removed if he insists. However, she goes to Klaa and reveals the 2nd officer's plans and she learns Klaa was not deranged as she feared. He was studying the Enterprise's shield changes as they were following (apparently in their haste, the Enterprise crew forgot to encode the changes, probably thinking the Okrona was left behind). The 2nd officer is killed, they make the same changes to their shields and follow.
Then Sybok meets up with Kirk, Spock and McCoy and 'share' their pain. I already covered that so I won't get into it much here again. The main thing that might touch on some of @STEPhon IT 's questions is Sybok sees the barrier as a manifestation of their fear of the unknown. That he feels it's a test, a challenge to overcome that will allow them to meet the "One", as Sybok refers to God in the novel. The Barrier is more ominous in the novel and the characters talk about what it is in more detail (even discussing how it might be the edge of a massive black hole, or even a 'white' hole at the center of the galaxy).
So...now they reach the planet, Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Sybok go to the planet and things proceed similar to the movie (with just some details added). The scene plays out as we see it mostly, though Sybok does have just a hint of doubt when the 'One' asks how they reached them, thinking he should already know. The main addition is Sybok has an additional motivation to sacrifice himself. He basically feels everything he has done has been for nothing. That he and his mother were deceived. He decides to sacrifice himself to the entity to try to at least bring some meaning to his death. Then the torpedo is sent, they race to the shuttlecraft and McCoy and Spock are beamed aboard. As Kirk realizes something has happened and he is not going to be beamed aboard (because the Enterprise has been attacked) he feels a brief moment of panic as he realizes he is alone as the entity tries to break into the shuttle to get to him. And that's where I left off.
The only other things I noted were in the novel there is more dialogue between Talbot, Dar and Korrd. Talbot almost leaves to go back to his drinking habits after they learn the entity is not who they thought it was, but for some reason he stays. Korrd argues that Sybok's sacrifice was not in vain, but in typical Klingon fashion, was an honorable death as he went down fighting. It is also noted the visual seen by the ship is not sent by the landing party, but fed to them from some other source.
I forgot that in the novel Sybok uses his 'power' on Scotty as well. After the, um, uncomfortable scene in sickbay between Scotty and Uhura, Sybok comes in to put Scotty under his spell. We learn Scotty's 'pain' was how tough he was on his nephew in TWOK before he died. He believed Preston stayed at his post because he was afraid Scotty would basically yell at him if he didn't. But Sybok showed him that Preston would have stayed on regardless because of his sense of duty. The reason Sybok needed Scotty was because he needed Scotty to implement his shield design plans to protect this ship from the barrier. He tells Scotty after that is done that he should resume repairs to the transporter as ordered by the captain (in the movie that part was never explained well...Scotty is in sickbay with Uhura, then next time we seem him he is back repairing the transporter).
There is some intrigue on the Klingon ship as well. The 2nd officer wants the 1st officer, Vixis, to kill Klaa because he feels Klaa is deranged for wanting to follow the Enterprise into the Barrier. He believes they will be destroyed. Vixis can't help but agree that Klaa may need to be removed if he insists. However, she goes to Klaa and reveals the 2nd officer's plans and she learns Klaa was not deranged as she feared. He was studying the Enterprise's shield changes as they were following (apparently in their haste, the Enterprise crew forgot to encode the changes, probably thinking the Okrona was left behind). The 2nd officer is killed, they make the same changes to their shields and follow.
Then Sybok meets up with Kirk, Spock and McCoy and 'share' their pain. I already covered that so I won't get into it much here again. The main thing that might touch on some of @STEPhon IT 's questions is Sybok sees the barrier as a manifestation of their fear of the unknown. That he feels it's a test, a challenge to overcome that will allow them to meet the "One", as Sybok refers to God in the novel. The Barrier is more ominous in the novel and the characters talk about what it is in more detail (even discussing how it might be the edge of a massive black hole, or even a 'white' hole at the center of the galaxy).
So...now they reach the planet, Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Sybok go to the planet and things proceed similar to the movie (with just some details added). The scene plays out as we see it mostly, though Sybok does have just a hint of doubt when the 'One' asks how they reached them, thinking he should already know. The main addition is Sybok has an additional motivation to sacrifice himself. He basically feels everything he has done has been for nothing. That he and his mother were deceived. He decides to sacrifice himself to the entity to try to at least bring some meaning to his death. Then the torpedo is sent, they race to the shuttlecraft and McCoy and Spock are beamed aboard. As Kirk realizes something has happened and he is not going to be beamed aboard (because the Enterprise has been attacked) he feels a brief moment of panic as he realizes he is alone as the entity tries to break into the shuttle to get to him. And that's where I left off.
The only other things I noted were in the novel there is more dialogue between Talbot, Dar and Korrd. Talbot almost leaves to go back to his drinking habits after they learn the entity is not who they thought it was, but for some reason he stays. Korrd argues that Sybok's sacrifice was not in vain, but in typical Klingon fashion, was an honorable death as he went down fighting. It is also noted the visual seen by the ship is not sent by the landing party, but fed to them from some other source.
Ok, all finished with the novelization.
We have the scene where Kirk is being chased by the entity. He has been unable to contact the Enterprise and he feels truly alone. As a result he starts to think death may really be at his doorstep. He also believes he lost the Enterprise again, this time with all hands, so now he's lost everything that ever mattered to him. His ship, his crew, his closest friends, David and Carol.
Meanwhile Korrd talks to Klaa and gives the order to have himself beamed aboard. Everyone on the Enterprise believes Korrd betrayed them now, thinking he is going to try to recapture glory by killing Kirk and destroying the Enterprise. When Korrd is is aboard the Okrona those thoughts cross his mind, but he never seriously considers it because of his encounter with Sybok.
Then back on the planet Kirk believes it's only a matter of time now then we have the scene where the Klingon ship appears, destroys the entity and beams Kirk aboard. Then things play out much as they did in the movie except in the novel Kirk actually does hug Spock. In the novel it has more meaning I think because Kirk really thought the Enterprise was destroyed.
Then in the final scene in the forward observation lounge Korrd, Talbot and Dar all agree to return to Nimbus III and to work together to try to make it a true symbol of peace between the three. Korrd has a powerful relative on the High Council and he enlists Klaa's help, convincing him that is a battle worth fighting for. This novel ends up on a hopeful note for peace between the Klingons and the Federation (and the Romulan Empire). Perhaps one could retroactively consider that a foreshadowing of TUC (though obviously that was still 2 years away so a coincidental one).
There is a lot of discussion on how Sybok has touched every one. The peace he gave every one remains, the release of their pain is permanent. Kirk even notes that even though he was not touched by Sybok at all, he still feels more at peace with his painful past. He realizes that all his attempts earlier in the film with taking risks with his life all circled back to his refusal to face the pain of losing David, Carol and the Enterprise- which is actually a theme brought up in TWOK when he has to face the death of Spock. Then he makes the comment about losing a brother once, and how lucky he was to get him back.
Then the end is much as we see it, though Spock notes that he discovered McCoy's little practical joke about 'marsh melons', which is never mentioned in the movie.
I also rewatched the movie again this week to get a better feel for the comparisons/contrasts of the two.
The novel was definitely superior to the film in this case. The overall plot weaknesses do remain. Dillard is still limited in the sense that she had to stick with the plot of the film. She couldn't do anything about that. But the novel gives additional details that clarify some things in the film and she does what she can to strengthen the story as best she can. There is a bit more symbolism present in the novel. It's nice to have some explanation as to why Kirk is acting so recklessly early on, on Spock's feelings on Sybok, on what motivates Sybok in more detail, on the wide effect Sybok has on every life he touches. Sybok feels his life was in vain because he didn't achieve his final goal. But, as the end of the novel points out, it really wasn't. He gave the people he touched a great gift, peace. Peace with themselves.
So for any fan of TFF, I highly recommend picking up a copy of the novelization and giving it a read, even if you don't usually read Star Trek novels.
We have the scene where Kirk is being chased by the entity. He has been unable to contact the Enterprise and he feels truly alone. As a result he starts to think death may really be at his doorstep. He also believes he lost the Enterprise again, this time with all hands, so now he's lost everything that ever mattered to him. His ship, his crew, his closest friends, David and Carol.
Meanwhile Korrd talks to Klaa and gives the order to have himself beamed aboard. Everyone on the Enterprise believes Korrd betrayed them now, thinking he is going to try to recapture glory by killing Kirk and destroying the Enterprise. When Korrd is is aboard the Okrona those thoughts cross his mind, but he never seriously considers it because of his encounter with Sybok.
Then back on the planet Kirk believes it's only a matter of time now then we have the scene where the Klingon ship appears, destroys the entity and beams Kirk aboard. Then things play out much as they did in the movie except in the novel Kirk actually does hug Spock. In the novel it has more meaning I think because Kirk really thought the Enterprise was destroyed.
Then in the final scene in the forward observation lounge Korrd, Talbot and Dar all agree to return to Nimbus III and to work together to try to make it a true symbol of peace between the three. Korrd has a powerful relative on the High Council and he enlists Klaa's help, convincing him that is a battle worth fighting for. This novel ends up on a hopeful note for peace between the Klingons and the Federation (and the Romulan Empire). Perhaps one could retroactively consider that a foreshadowing of TUC (though obviously that was still 2 years away so a coincidental one).
There is a lot of discussion on how Sybok has touched every one. The peace he gave every one remains, the release of their pain is permanent. Kirk even notes that even though he was not touched by Sybok at all, he still feels more at peace with his painful past. He realizes that all his attempts earlier in the film with taking risks with his life all circled back to his refusal to face the pain of losing David, Carol and the Enterprise- which is actually a theme brought up in TWOK when he has to face the death of Spock. Then he makes the comment about losing a brother once, and how lucky he was to get him back.
Then the end is much as we see it, though Spock notes that he discovered McCoy's little practical joke about 'marsh melons', which is never mentioned in the movie.
I also rewatched the movie again this week to get a better feel for the comparisons/contrasts of the two.
The novel was definitely superior to the film in this case. The overall plot weaknesses do remain. Dillard is still limited in the sense that she had to stick with the plot of the film. She couldn't do anything about that. But the novel gives additional details that clarify some things in the film and she does what she can to strengthen the story as best she can. There is a bit more symbolism present in the novel. It's nice to have some explanation as to why Kirk is acting so recklessly early on, on Spock's feelings on Sybok, on what motivates Sybok in more detail, on the wide effect Sybok has on every life he touches. Sybok feels his life was in vain because he didn't achieve his final goal. But, as the end of the novel points out, it really wasn't. He gave the people he touched a great gift, peace. Peace with themselves.
So for any fan of TFF, I highly recommend picking up a copy of the novelization and giving it a read, even if you don't usually read Star Trek novels.
Today is the anniversary of the film’s US release.
I was 13 at the time and probably at the height of my Trek fandom. Everyone was excited for this movie in my class. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade had hit Memorial Day Weekend, and we all loved it. Batman and Ghostbusters 2 were still on the horizon. I had read all the Starlog articles leading up to the film, but avoided spoilers like the plague. I had bought the novel from a local bookstore but didn’t read anything except the description on the back.
My dad took me to see the movie opening night at the 6:45 showing. We went to dinner first and ended up being more than a little late, and we actually got the last two tickets in the theater. We sat in the front right corner, but I didn’t care. The movie rolled and I was immediately transported away on an adventure with my favorite characters. I remember that night very well. I remember the thrill of that opening scene as the mysterious rider approaches the lone man In the dessert and the thumping soundtrack. The joy of hearing Jerry Goldsmith’s main theme. I remember thinking what a grand opening all the images of Yosemite made. I was excited about the redesign of the Enterprise bridge, even though I had really loved the TVH look. There was a malfunction in the theaters air conditioner that caused a quiet but perceivable rhythmic “thump thump thump” sound throughout the movie that a couple of guys came and fixed (very discretely) during the “share your pain” sequence in the observation room.
I remember quite distinctly that the crowd seemed totally engaged. Everyone stood and clapped and cheered at the end credits. My dad loved it and had a great time. We talked abou5 how this movie had been more of a pure quest/adventure movie than the others, and that it really felt like a summer blockbuster.
It was the first time I had seen a movie on opening night, and to this day it is my favorite and most memorable moviegoing experience.
It broke my heart later to read that fans and critics disliked the movie, but my perception has remained the same since that sunny perfect Friday in 1989.
I was 13 at the time and probably at the height of my Trek fandom. Everyone was excited for this movie in my class. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade had hit Memorial Day Weekend, and we all loved it. Batman and Ghostbusters 2 were still on the horizon. I had read all the Starlog articles leading up to the film, but avoided spoilers like the plague. I had bought the novel from a local bookstore but didn’t read anything except the description on the back.
My dad took me to see the movie opening night at the 6:45 showing. We went to dinner first and ended up being more than a little late, and we actually got the last two tickets in the theater. We sat in the front right corner, but I didn’t care. The movie rolled and I was immediately transported away on an adventure with my favorite characters. I remember that night very well. I remember the thrill of that opening scene as the mysterious rider approaches the lone man In the dessert and the thumping soundtrack. The joy of hearing Jerry Goldsmith’s main theme. I remember thinking what a grand opening all the images of Yosemite made. I was excited about the redesign of the Enterprise bridge, even though I had really loved the TVH look. There was a malfunction in the theaters air conditioner that caused a quiet but perceivable rhythmic “thump thump thump” sound throughout the movie that a couple of guys came and fixed (very discretely) during the “share your pain” sequence in the observation room.
I remember quite distinctly that the crowd seemed totally engaged. Everyone stood and clapped and cheered at the end credits. My dad loved it and had a great time. We talked abou5 how this movie had been more of a pure quest/adventure movie than the others, and that it really felt like a summer blockbuster.
It was the first time I had seen a movie on opening night, and to this day it is my favorite and most memorable moviegoing experience.
It broke my heart later to read that fans and critics disliked the movie, but my perception has remained the same since that sunny perfect Friday in 1989.
I guess I picked a good time to read the novel
. I remember seeing it in the theater for the first time myself on opening night. As I noted I had already read the novel, which I enjoyed. I remember I was a bit disappointed that the movie didn't quite live up to the novel, there was a lot in the novel I wish was in the film. But it also helped me enjoy the film a bit more. I knew about Sybok's mother, about the 'pain' each of the crew was exposed to and freed from. I think without having read the novel first I would have really noticed the plot holes quite a bit more. I recall being disappointed with the special effects even then. I was like WTF happened. The first 4 films had excellent effects and now it's like B-movie effects.
I was excited to hear Jerry Goldsmith's theme in the theater for the first time. I had not seen TMP in the theater so I never got to hear his iconic TMP theme in theater sound before that.
I was also excited to see the first movie with the Enterprise-A.
I also still remember thinking at the time, hmm, they reused some of the sets from TNG, like the corridors (without the black computer interface), sickbay bed and transporter room (with some minor alterations).
I also remember being interested in seeing the first movie that came out while TNG was on the air. TNG as I recall just finished up their 2nd season and seemed to finally be finding its way and I was interested to see if that would have any effect on TFF.
At the time I thought the humor was a bit over the top. In the novel the humor was more muted, and made more sense. Like the brig scene which started getting downright childish. In the novel it was handled much better. There was still a bit of humor, but it made more sense and seemed more appropriate. I knew, even then, that they were trying to tap TVH well a 2nd time--and the 2nd time was not a charm.
But I liked it. I encouraged my father to see it the following week. He loved TWOK (and later TUC--probably his 2 favorite Trek films). My father was not a Trekkie, just a casual watcher. But he came out and hated it. He never actually watched it again. That was my first inkling that TFF might not be well-regarded. Not that my father was any kind of barometer overall or anything when it came to popular movies. It was just a first sign all was not right in TFF world. Then I started seeing the bad press and the film started tanking soon after it was released and I started hearing that may spell the end of the movies for the original cast. I was happy they got one more outing. Despite it's arguable weaknesses, TUC at least is better regarded and generally seen as a good send off for the original cast.
Loved this! I had a very similar experience.
Funny, without even noting the date, I watched this last night.
At this point, I had a standing policy to not read the reviews until I saw a Star Trek film. So, I had no idea going in what I was in for. Whatever I knew I got from reading Starlog, the National Enquirer (which actually ran the entire plot of the movie before it came out and it was 100% correct) and so on.
I was excited and nervous going in. Excited because I liked what I had read thus far: it was an action adventure which gave the entire case something to do. It wasn’t, like the previous film, promoted as a comedy. While I liked The Voyage Home, I was never a fan of Star Trek’s all out comedies and felt that it was kind of a waste of a movie. I had to wait at least two years in between films and after all that time I get a comedy. Jokes get old, but I can rewatch adventures forever (Raiders of the Lost Ark always seems fresh while I don’t laugh at Airplane so much anymore). So I was excited. I was nervous because I didn't know what to expect from Shatner the director. I had joked up to that time that the camera would be focused on his face for two hours while everything went on outside the camera. "Star Trek V: Kirk."
I knew there would be jokes. The Scotty Pratfall was in the previews and I saw some of the campfire scene on a talk show. But overall, it was an adventure. The preview also ran before Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade some weeks earlier and I said to my sister, “shit, I would rather see that right now!”
Anyway, opening night, my sister and I sat in our favorite centered seats and loved the film. F’n loved it! I was aware of some of the weirdness (Kirk free climbing, the dodgy effects, some of the humor) but overall, we had an amazing time. My immediate opinion was “the characters I love doing what they do best.” That hasn’t changed. Now, so many years later, I can pick it apart and wish they did other things differently, but overall, I still love the film. I will always choose to watch it over The Voyage Home and the vastly overrated The Undiscovered Country. It’s a great deal of fun and once they get to the Nimbus III attempted rescue, the film moves like a bullet. Amazing music by Goldsmith and some of the best cinematography in the series.
Sybok was also one of the best antagonists in the run and his final realization that he was duped by his own hubris was actually pretty heartbreaking.
I'll go to my grave loving this film. It's in my top 4, along with The Motion Picture, The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock.
Agree on all counts. I always liked the more "adventure-oriented" Treks. And, while I love "Trouble with Tribbles" and other humorous outings, I don't find them as engaging or re-watchable as the more action-adventure-drama stories.
I love Last Crusade, to the point where I even like it a bit more than Raiders...but I agree that TFF was definitely the #1 movie I had my sights set on that summer! The preview and TV spots had me completely drooling, becuase like you, I felt like TVH was "good," but also a major let-down after TWOK and TSFS, and it was clear that this was a Trek that was meant to be more of an up-tempo action/adventure that was perfectly suited for the summer.
Agree on all counts. I put TFF ahead of TVH and TUC as well. TVH is cute and fun, but it's just kind of "there." TUC is, as you say, vastly overrated and I believe has as many flaws, inconsistencies, and hols as TFF, but isn't nearly as fun.
I think, besides Khan, he is the best guest character in the entire film franchise.
Those are my tops as well! I honestly love them all (except for INS, which I actually pretty much full-on dislike), but these are the top for me.
I guess I picked a good time to read the novel
I recall being disappointed with the special effects even then. I was like WTF happened. The first 4 films had excellent effects and now it's like B-movie effects.
I was excited to hear Jerry Goldsmith's theme in the theater for the first time. I had not seen TMP in the theater so I never got to hear his iconic TMP theme in theater sound before that.
I was also excited to see the first movie with the Enterprise-A.
I also still remember thinking at the time, hmm, they reused some of the sets from TNG, like the corridors (without the black computer interface), sickbay bed and transporter room (with some minor alterations).
I also remember being interested in seeing the first movie that came out while TNG was on the air. TNG as I recall just finished up their 2nd season and seemed to finally be finding its way and I was interested to see if that would have any effect on TFF.
At the time I thought the humor was a bit over the top. In the novel the humor was more muted, and made more sense. Like the brig scene which started getting downright childish. In the novel it was handled much better. There was still a bit of humor, but it made more sense and seemed more appropriate. I knew, even then, that they were trying to tap TVH well a 2nd time--and the 2nd time was not a charm.
But I liked it. I encouraged my father to see it the following week. He loved TWOK (and later TUC--probably his 2 favorite Trek films). My father was not a Trekkie, just a casual watcher. But he came out and hated it. He never actually watched it again. That was my first inkling that TFF might not be well-regarded. Not that my father was any kind of barometer overall or anything when it came to popular movies. It was just a first sign all was not right in TFF world. Then I started seeing the bad press and the film started tanking soon after it was released and I started hearing that may spell the end of the movies for the original cast. I was happy they got one more outing. Despite it's arguable weaknesses, TUC at least is better regarded and generally seen as a good send off for the original cast.
I may have been too young to see the plot holes or flaws clearly at the time, especially through the haze of my giddy excitement just to be watching another Star Trek film.
I took the opposite approach from you, and I read the book immediately following the movie. I think that my reading the book in such close proximity to having seen the movie engrained some of those additional plot and character elements permanently into my mind, so that I really don't view the movie without having those items "filled in" already...so it actually helps me perceive the film in a totally different way than I might otherwise.
Good stuff!
Of all the novelizations of the 12 films that had one (it still burns me that Beyond never got a novelization), this is the one I'd most recommend people read. It really enhances the film experience. It's unfortunate more of what is in the novel didn't make it in the film because I think it would have made for a stronger film plot wise. If I never read the novel I think the plot issues would have stuck out more.
But this was the first Star Trek film I saw in the theater as a hardened Trekkie. I became a Trekkie just before TVH came out so when I went to see TVH I was still very much a new fan just getting my feet wet (I was still in the middle of watching the original series). By the time TFF came out I had seen the entire original series and of course TNG up to that point. So I was pretty excited too. Ditto for TUC. Then during my college years I was pretty poor (I had to put myself through college so money was a definite luxury) but I still scrounged up enough money to see Generations and First Contact in the theater. I would have loved to have seen FC more than once in the theater, but I was lucky I got enough money together to see it at least once.
As for TFF I just wish Paramount hadn't insisted on the extra humor (some is fine in the film--usually the McCoy quips, but some you could tell was added purely for gags). And of course I wish they had used a better special effects unit. Watching the film again earlier this week it still grates on me after all these years.
In fact I never bought the Blu-Ray for TFF--my little passive aggressive protest I guess 
. Those special effects are so bad I don't want to see them in Blu-Ray clarity. If Paramount ever does decide to release a 'revised' edition then I'd buy one. And to be honest, the special edition DVD I have is pretty clear so I've never felt a pressing need to upgrade. That'll show them
This and the pain scene are probably my favorites out of this film. Sybok is right along side Chang and Nero for antagonists for me. Khan is too overrated.
Well, with the important distinction that Sybok, neither kills nor intends to kill anyone.
Personally, I don't think Sybok even qualifies as a villain. His methods are questionable and he's obviously misguided but his heart is in the right place;
Super important...
God, I hope Shatner isn’t reading this because I love the man.
I’m trying to think back to when I first saw TFF and I remember my first impression of seeing Sybok and Jonn was there was something clumsy afoot.
The dialogue didn’t seem to have punch.
“I can’t believe you’d kill me for a bunch of holes.”
“It’s all I have.”
And Sybok laughing and the music and the stupid look on Jonn’s face when he realized Sybok was Vulcan.
I don’t know if it was the dialogue or the music. But SOMETHING about that pre credits scene just screamed “Oh no.” at my then 14-15 year old self. I had an immediate sense that the movie wasn’t going up to par with 1-4.
Did anybody else get an “Oh no.” feeling from the precredits scene?
The acting in the cast also seemed “off”.
I’m trying to think back to when I first saw TFF and I remember my first impression of seeing Sybok and Jonn was there was something clumsy afoot.
The dialogue didn’t seem to have punch.
“I can’t believe you’d kill me for a bunch of holes.”
“It’s all I have.”
And Sybok laughing and the music and the stupid look on Jonn’s face when he realized Sybok was Vulcan.
I don’t know if it was the dialogue or the music. But SOMETHING about that pre credits scene just screamed “Oh no.” at my then 14-15 year old self. I had an immediate sense that the movie wasn’t going up to par with 1-4.
Did anybody else get an “Oh no.” feeling from the precredits scene?
The acting in the cast also seemed “off”.
Yeah, I remember my reaction the first time I saw it.
"If there are no starships on this planet then how the hell did he get there???"
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