Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

[Anwar]

The disconnect happens, in my opinion, in that we can never know what the entire audience actually thought about VOY during its run. My research and analysis is that VOY had small bumps with things like Scorpion, the Gift, Year of Hell, and others, but those metrics are difficult to fully evaluate. It doesn't negate your experience, mine or anyone else's. It is just that the picture is incomplete. For instance, Seven of Nine was a change, and regardless of how people feel about her presentation, there was definitely an audience reaction in the positive trend in her character, or catsuit (I won't discount that)-YMMV, obviously.

They enjoyed some things about Scorpion (Seven) while disliking the idea of there being one species out there the Borg couldn't easily defeat (despite all the series showing such beings existed).

It strikes me as odd that there can be this careful analysis of what VOY did poorly and yet an apparent annoyance at fans for not liking VOY. So, I'm not sure why the disconnect but that seems strange to me.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

Finally, I can enjoy VOY as it, but it is difficult to not recognize the possibility and the unfulfilled potential that it represents.

I feel the same way.

 

[Tosk]

It strikes me as odd that there can be this careful analysis of what VOY did poorly and yet an apparent annoyance at fans for not liking VOY. So, I'm not sure why the disconnect but that seems strange to me.

I think sometimes it might be an intentional disconnect. "I" am not like "those" fans. I know better, and they were wrong for whatever imagined thing is it they said or did or felt. ...even though I more or less agree with them.

 

[fireproof78]

The disconnect happens, in my opinion, in that we can never know what the entire audience actually thought about VOY during its run. My research and analysis is that VOY had small bumps with things like Scorpion, the Gift, Year of Hell, and others, but those metrics are difficult to fully evaluate. It doesn't negate your experience, mine or anyone else's. It is just that the picture is incomplete. For instance, Seven of Nine was a change, and regardless of how people feel about her presentation, there was definitely an audience reaction in the positive trend in her character, or catsuit (I won't discount that)-YMMV, obviously.

They enjoyed some things about Scorpion (Seven) while disliking the idea of there being one species out there the Borg couldn't easily defeat (despite all the series showing such beings existed).

It strikes me as odd that there can be this careful analysis of what VOY did poorly and yet an apparent annoyance at fans for not liking VOY. So, I'm not sure why the disconnect but that seems strange to me.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

Finally, I can enjoy VOY as it, but it is difficult to not recognize the possibility and the unfulfilled potential that it represents.

I feel the same way.

But, people can like a show but still find fault with different aspects. It isn't "hatred" to find one aspect of a show appealing and not enjoy other parts. I'm sure there are different aspects of VOY that I enjoy and different parts that you enjoy. I know one friend of mine enjoyed the music very much in VOY. I love the design of the Intrepid class. The point is, just because people like parts of Scorpion but not others, doesn't mean there is hatred towards the episode or the show in general.

My point that I was trying to make was the idea that there is an agreement that VOY had subpar plot lines and poor character development but still misunderstanding as to why people don't like it.

I think that Tosk put it well too. We can agree that VOY had its problems, but the audience still shares the blame-that's the part that confuses me. To me, that is the most frustrating part. The audience does not have the creative control over a show that the production team does, or the value that team puts in to the production. So, the audience cannot be faulted if they do not like the product.

 

[apollo1984]

I enjoyed Voyager for the most part however it it relatively low on my favourite trek as there were many things starting to grate on me by the end of the run.

1) In later seasons they seemed to have a "core" three in Janeway, Seven and the Doctor who were all good characters but if left many of the others very underdeveloped.

2) The ship was far too clean, essentially the ship is in the middle of nowhere (i.e. no access to starbases) there should be more "patch-work" repairs maybe even showing the incorporation of alien technology into the ship and that "replicator rations" just seamed like a cop-out to give the illusion of resource issues.

 

[Anwar]

But, people can like a show but still find fault with different aspects. It isn't "hatred" to find one aspect of a show appealing and not enjoy other parts. I'm sure there are different aspects of VOY that I enjoy and different parts that you enjoy. I know one friend of mine enjoyed the music very much in VOY. I love the design of the Intrepid class. The point is, just because people like parts of Scorpion but not others, doesn't mean there is hatred towards the episode or the show in general.

Well, just because you enjoyed 1% of something doesn't mean you like it as a whole.

My point that I was trying to make was the idea that there is an agreement that VOY had subpar plot lines and poor character development but still misunderstanding as to why people don't like it.

I still think there were significant external factors, as well as conceptual problems.

To me, that is the most frustrating part. The audience does not have the creative control over a show that the production team does, or the value that team puts in to the production. So, the audience cannot be faulted if they do not like the product.

They do have an impact on the viewership and reception it gets though, as well as an impact on writers and how their work is noticed.

 

[MacLeod]

Unfortunatly what can happen is

it's X, they'll watch it/buy it because it's X. Doesn't matter what it's like they are selling it on the name rather than the product

 

[Anwar]

Well, that's what UPN and Paramount thought.

 

[fireproof78]

But, people can like a show but still find fault with different aspects. It isn't "hatred" to find one aspect of a show appealing and not enjoy other parts. I'm sure there are different aspects of VOY that I enjoy and different parts that you enjoy. I know one friend of mine enjoyed the music very much in VOY. I love the design of the Intrepid class. The point is, just because people like parts of Scorpion but not others, doesn't mean there is hatred towards the episode or the show in general.

Well, just because you enjoyed 1% of something doesn't mean you like it as a whole.

My point that I was trying to make was the idea that there is an agreement that VOY had subpar plot lines and poor character development but still misunderstanding as to why people don't like it.

I still think there were significant external factors, as well as conceptual problems.

To me, that is the most frustrating part. The audience does not have the creative control over a show that the production team does, or the value that team puts in to the production. So, the audience cannot be faulted if they do not like the product.

They do have an impact on the viewership and reception it gets though, as well as an impact on writers and how their work is noticed.

I think that many here (and elsewhere) can agree that VOY suffered from conceptual problems and leadership difficulties. I think that they impacted the development of the show, and changes were not consistently applied because of changing staff (beyond leadership positions, obviously). There was also a desire to maintain the formula and status quo established by TNG. The changes to the show can only occur if they are consistently applied, which was something that VOY suffered from...a lot.



Again, conceptual problems cannot be blamed or pushed on to the audience. Despite the problems, VOY's difficulties are no greater or no less that other Treks, other than being more prominent in the public eye, and being used as a flagship show for Paramount. Studio execs meddle, or are apathetic, in extreme cases. Budgets are slashed, things happens, writers strike, etc. The point is, problems occur and you can either surrender to them or try to overcome them.

To address you analogy, if I enjoy 1% of something but don't like the rest, that doesn't mean that I hate it either. I can only react to what is produced, not control it. As I have said before, I don't hate VOY or wish it ill. It just never captured my interest the way other Treks did. VOY is some people's favorite Treks, and not others. I certainly know several fans of VOY.

As previously discussed, VOY's decline was due to a number of factors, not just audience viewing numbers or disinterest. But, hey, like I said, we will never know the full story.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I also enjoy how when the maquis deal came they all caved because it shows that the maquis were not the reactionary animals certain people say they were, rather they were rational pragmatic libertarian idealists who saw that their best out was in. They got home and it is my sincere belief that they returned to their people and rebuilt what was available to them after the Federation gave up a generation of their people's work to the Cardassians for political strategy.

 

[SPCTRE]

Next up: "The Maquis - the ISIS of Star Trek?"

This is CNN.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The dividing line ran through the center of town..

 

[dub]

I also enjoy how when the maquis deal came they all caved because it shows that the maquis were not the reactionary animals certain people say they were, rather they were rational pragmatic libertarian idealists who saw that their best out was in. They got home and it is my sincere belief that they returned to their people and rebuilt what was available to them after the Federation gave up a generation of their people's work to the Cardassians for political strategy.

Ya know, I do agree with all of that...when I read it out loud with a heavily sarcastic voice and a big every few words.

I really am kidding. I just couldn't resist. Love y'all!

 

[MacLeod]

I also enjoy how when the maquis deal came they all caved because it shows that the maquis were not the reactionary animals certain people say they were, rather they were rational pragmatic libertarian idealists who saw that their best out was in. They got home and it is my sincere belief that they returned to their people and rebuilt what was available to them after the Federation gave up a generation of their people's work to the Cardassians for political strategy.

So you are saying they should have isked war over a handful of colonies, which could potentially cost millions of lives? They offered to resettle the colonists.

 

[Anwar]

I think that many here (and elsewhere) can agree that VOY suffered from conceptual problems and leadership difficulties. I think that they impacted the development of the show, and changes were not consistently applied because of changing staff (beyond leadership positions, obviously). There was also a desire to maintain the formula and status quo established by TNG. The changes to the show can only occur if they are consistently applied, which was something that VOY suffered from...a lot.

I agree.

Again, conceptual problems cannot be blamed or pushed on to the audience. Despite the problems, VOY's difficulties are no greater or no less that other Treks, other than being more prominent in the public eye, and being used as a flagship show for Paramount. Studio execs meddle, or are apathetic, in extreme cases. Budgets are slashed, things happens, writers strike, etc. The point is, problems occur and you can either surrender to them or try to overcome them.

I disagree that VOY had it the same as the other shows. I still say they had it harder, and overcoming them would've been harder too.

As previously discussed, VOY's decline was due to a number of factors, not just audience viewing numbers or disinterest. But, hey, like I said, we will never know the full story.

I agree.

 

[fireproof78]

I think that many here (and elsewhere) can agree that VOY suffered from conceptual problems and leadership difficulties. I think that they impacted the development of the show, and changes were not consistently applied because of changing staff (beyond leadership positions, obviously). There was also a desire to maintain the formula and status quo established by TNG. The changes to the show can only occur if they are consistently applied, which was something that VOY suffered from...a lot.

I agree.

Again, conceptual problems cannot be blamed or pushed on to the audience. Despite the problems, VOY's difficulties are no greater or no less that other Treks, other than being more prominent in the public eye, and being used as a flagship show for Paramount. Studio execs meddle, or are apathetic, in extreme cases. Budgets are slashed, things happens, writers strike, etc. The point is, problems occur and you can either surrender to them or try to overcome them.

I disagree that VOY had it the same as the other shows. I still say they had it harder, and overcoming them would've been harder too.

As previously discussed, VOY's decline was due to a number of factors, not just audience viewing numbers or disinterest. But, hey, like I said, we will never know the full story.

I agree.

I think that it would be a difficult, if not impossible task, to quantify the difficulties that each Trek show has experienced in its production process and compare them to each other. They each faced challenges, some were overcome and some were not. Happened with every show and film.


But, hey, here's some stuff other shows went through too:

TOS suffered from execs who didn't know what the show was about, and constant threat of cancellation. Several of the TOS films suffered from meddling execs (see the TMP development, among others. It started early), cut budgets, and threat of cancellation. TNG had a writers strike, and several changes to leadership, until finally hitting its stride. DS9 followed the VOY ratings trend, though the Dominion War seemed to boost it a little. But, there is a gripe that it was too dark, and away from Gene's vision.

I understand that VOY gets a lot of grief. I feel that Abrams Trek get's and undeserved level of grief too and it harshly ridiculed. But, that doesn't mean that all criticisms are bad, or coming from a place of hatred or anger. It can be from a place of legitimate disappointment and frustration.

 

[Anwar]

I understand that VOY gets a lot of grief. I feel that Abrams Trek get's and undeserved level of grief too and it harshly ridiculed. But, that doesn't mean that all criticisms are bad, or coming from a place of hatred or anger. It can be from a place of legitimate disappointment and frustration.

I agree, I just think some of the hate VOY gets is totally ignorant of the situation and over-the-top.

 

[Bisz]

I understand that VOY gets a lot of grief. I feel that Abrams Trek get's and undeserved level of grief too and it harshly ridiculed. But, that doesn't mean that all criticisms are bad, or coming from a place of hatred or anger. It can be from a place of legitimate disappointment and frustration.

I agree, I just think some of the hate VOY gets is totally ignorant of the situation and over-the-top.

What does being ignorant of the situation have to do with it?

If someone doesn't like something, does it matter that it's the fault of the actor, writer, director, or executive?

I don't like Janeway, I find her unlikeable and a bad captain. It doesn't matter to me if she is that way because the writers screwed up or if its due to Paramout interference.

 

[fireproof78]

I understand that VOY gets a lot of grief. I feel that Abrams Trek get's and undeserved level of grief too and it harshly ridiculed. But, that doesn't mean that all criticisms are bad, or coming from a place of hatred or anger. It can be from a place of legitimate disappointment and frustration.

I agree, I just think some of the hate VOY gets is totally ignorant of the situation and over-the-top.

I have found this is the case with most every Trek series, depending on the episode, or. in Abrams case, the movie. Maybe it isn't as prolific as VOY, but most average fans are ignorant of the general goings-on of a film or TV show production. It's either going to be enjoyable, forgettable or frustrating. Given the proliferation of Trek at the time, the frustration is understandable.

However, for me, Abrams Trek has certainly taken more heat off of VOY than anything else I have seen. The point is, the audience only reacts to what is presented. They are not necessarily going to be persuaded by the reasons why something was bad, just like they won't be persuaded if the director comes on in a commentary and says, "Well, I would have put this in the film, and done it like this if I had time." Chuck from SF Debris put it this way, "You don't get credit for things not in your movie because you didn't put them in the movie." Abrams Trek gets this a lot because there is the prequel comic that tries to explain red matter, Spock's ship, Nero's relationship with Spock, the Narada, etc. But, it isn't in the film, so it doesn't count when I'm sitting in the theater watching it.

Same thing with VOY. I don't know all the goings on when I'm watching it. I just know that it isn't enjoyable. Again, the fan base or audience isn't responsible for the quality of production or material presented.

 

[Anwar]

You know...I think we actually agree on more things than we disagree. XD

 

[Taylirious]

If you watch The Big Bang Theory(Last night)...

Spoiler: Big Bang Theory & VOY

Apparently Sheldon hates VOY too!