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Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

That wasn't the point. I was talking about the look of the ship and their shortage of Colonial replacement parts and equipment etc., not the story.

And that was accomplished by them having access to cheaper CGI tech that wasn't available in 1995.

Incorporate a few different techs that look different, have energy shortings that actually affect life on the ship, turn off the flipping holodecks...that kind of stuff. Little things.

And mate, I actually like the show. That doesn't mean I don't get to have complaints.
I agree, but for the most part it really shouldn't have been too hard replace stuff with Starfleet equipment. That's what the Engineering Replicators were for.

We might actually be agreeing, you know. I don't think everything needed to be falling apart, but I missed a certain feeling of urgency that would be expected in their situation. A few small adjustments would have totally remedied the situation. I agree that there was no need to go full-emo-mode like BSG did. BSG did lose coherency rather quickly, and a lot of what happened after season 2 was pretty meh.

Except for the Gaius Baltar trial at the end of season 3. That was awesome.
 
But every week that the trial didn't happen pissed me off.

It always seemed like surely next week, but then it wasn't.

Battlestar Galactica is a cocktease!
 
That's why you binge-watch stuff on your streaming service of choice. Or, as we did in the olden days, physical media.
 
But every week that the trial didn't happen pissed me off.

It always seemed like surely next week, but then it wasn't.

Battlestar Galactica is a cocktease!

Yes, indeed. But when we got to see it, it RULED. Because Mark Sheppard's character is a Magnificent Bastard. Those two episodes totally made up for the rest of the season. Pity the show didn't keep up the awesome after that. :(
 
You know that Instant Cassettes isn't a real thing?
Instant Cassettes? As in, just add water? I only woke up about 20 minutes ago, and it's almost 3:30am, so brain isn't on full thrusters yet.

I've watched nuBSG only to Season 2.0 so far, and not sure I want to continue. I have trouble understanding all the love for it. Sort of what non-Voyager fans go through, I guess.
 
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWmVlgIR2HA[/yt]

The miniseries was soso.

Season one is a work of fricking art.

Season two was controlled by the network suits who demanded more Voyagerlike stand alone episodes to capture the interest of noncomittal assholes.

Season three is about a witch hunt.

Season four is about getting their shit together about Earth.

Season 3 and 4 are massive arcs, lots of arcs, so many thing happening that very rarely end in the episode which they started. Of course that makes it binary, love/hate... So if you hate the single season long stories, you might as well walk away, but then if you do like the beginning, that means that you have a 20 hour movie with your name on it.



Oh.

Saul Tigh = Salty.

He's a Salty Seadog.

That's pretty funny. :)
 
How would you describe some shmuck who missed an episode of season 3 Voyager and and couldn't dare watch any more episodes after that, because he or she wouldn't be able to understand that which is to come?

That's impossible right?

Maybe if you missed Scorpion, but Voyager/Star Trek is made for people who can miss 5 weeks and it doesn't matter, which is the demographic their sponsors want to shill crap to.
 
That was part of the problem I had with DS9 in its 7th season. I was working nights and weekends, and missed long stretches of the series, having no idea of what was going on when I was able to catch an episode. From the latter part of the 90s to early 2000s, I had no tv or computer at all and couldn't keep track of what was going on with DS9 and VOY. With ENT, I had access to a TV, but the landlord moved me to a different bedroom and I had no tv reception at all during the last 2 seasons. It influenced my opinion of serialized television, which I'd never been keen about that much, since I usually worked nights from the late 70s onward.

I usually taped every Star Trek episode I could, but eventually the financial downswing I had after January 1991 made it increasingly impossible. Once everything became digital broadcast, I haven't been able to even watch local news because I don't have a compatible tv.
 
Every day is Sunday for me now, since I had to stop working over 10 years ago. I don't like watching through streaming, so if there's something I want to investigate, I check the local used video store. I'd like to check out Game of Thrones, Farscape, and a few other shows, but even the used season copies are more than I can usually afford to spend. The nuBSG seasons are less than the Trek seasons I'm buying, but the series isn't grabbing me.
 
Serialized TV is for binge-watching. That's why God created Sundays. Or something.

This is how I usually watch shows. Makes understanding season-long story arcs much easier.

There was plenty of awesome to be had in BSG. It just got derailed by the Chris Carter effect and had a really stupid last episode.
 
In 5 years the price on the third hand boxsets will have halved.

Have you thought about joining a local science fiction club?

Like minded people you can trade or share media with?

If you're lucky they might even be the sort of club that hires a wall projector and a cubscout hall for a weekend now and then marathoning genre shows.
 
I'm in the wrong part of town for that, and without personal transportation. Odds would be better if I was closer to the university, but that's on the other side of town. My eyes are bad enough, I shouldn't even be out walking when it's dark. Almost bumped into someone on the sidewalk the other night because I didn't see them until too late.

Building my own video library also lets me feel like I still have some of my old lifestyle at least, because none of the rest of it exists.
 
First of all, Meyer's job was more difficult than such a quick description would make it sound like. Given that he was a new director to the Hollywood, that the studio was slashing the budget constantly, it was not exactly a cake walk. Meyer looked to overcome challenges and got the film going, writing a shooting script in about ten days. Oh, and that rewrite was uncredited and against guild rules.

But still, it wasn't the super-impossible thing you sorta described it as.

In addition, sources are that TWOK was the Trek 09 of its day and Meyers the Abrams of his day. It was a fresh take on Trek, from someone unfamiliar with the franchise, that was slightly at odds with Roddenberry's vision at the time. Producers received death threats as part of the production process. So, I'm sorry, I will find it difficult to believe that Meyer and crew didn't have a difficult time.

I may as well let you know...I don't really like the new movies.

A more interesting take would have been to have them now find out immediately why they were there but have a "mystery" and figure it out. It isn't that it has been done before because it obviously has and will be again. It's that it was treated as rote, trite and unimportant. That comes from the top down, in my opinion.

I agree there should've been something more to it than just them being lost and immediately knowing how to get home. That's why I keep saying the show suffered from not having a real plot.

And frankly, if it HAD been treated as some big important thing, then they'd just get criticized for that since Kirk and Picard were never that alarmed when it happened to them.

A smaller cast would have helped, but again, it still needs to have characters that can be related too.

And a smaller tighter cast would've made that easier to do.

In all honesty, VOY gets a bad wrap because Trek, overall, was in diminishing returns, but also it kept going for seven years, without really changing, with the same old mistakes still being made.

I agree.
 
First of all, Meyer's job was more difficult than such a quick description would make it sound like. Given that he was a new director to the Hollywood, that the studio was slashing the budget constantly, it was not exactly a cake walk. Meyer looked to overcome challenges and got the film going, writing a shooting script in about ten days. Oh, and that rewrite was uncredited and against guild rules.

But still, it wasn't the super-impossible thing you sorta described it as.

In addition, sources are that TWOK was the Trek 09 of its day and Meyers the Abrams of his day. It was a fresh take on Trek, from someone unfamiliar with the franchise, that was slightly at odds with Roddenberry's vision at the time. Producers received death threats as part of the production process. So, I'm sorry, I will find it difficult to believe that Meyer and crew didn't have a difficult time.
I may as well let you know...I don't really like the new movies.



I agree there should've been something more to it than just them being lost and immediately knowing how to get home. That's why I keep saying the show suffered from not having a real plot.

And frankly, if it HAD been treated as some big important thing, then they'd just get criticized for that since Kirk and Picard were never that alarmed when it happened to them.

A smaller cast would have helped, but again, it still needs to have characters that can be related too.
And a smaller tighter cast would've made that easier to do.

In all honesty, VOY gets a bad wrap because Trek, overall, was in diminishing returns, but also it kept going for seven years, without really changing, with the same old mistakes still being made.
I agree.
TWOK had its own version of development hell, and a bit unconventional. It may have not have been impossible but hardly easy. That was my point.

My other point, regarding Abrams and Meyers, was a similar background and approach to Trek. Regardless of personal opinion (some like it, some hate it), there is a similar trend in viewpoint and audience reaction. We can discuss Abrams Trek elsewhere ;)

The point to discussing production is that each have their own version of production hurdles. VOY's was not unique to the franchise, despite statements that the audience wanted to hate it. I can find no evidence of such sentiments beyond the current analysis of why VOY is bad and impacted the franchise the way it did.

VOY wanted to do something different and could have succeeded. It could have made a bigger deal of being stranded by saying, "we don't know where we are and need to find out why we are here." It's a big deal here because technology, both alien and Starfleet, has failed them, unlike TOS or TNG where tech saves them. In storytelling parlance they could, "hang a lantern," on the idea that the technology has failed and they will need more information about this section of space before getting home. That makes it more important because there is nothing there to help them or save them, distinguishing from Kirk or Picard.

Beyond that, if the premise isn't working, then you change it up to make it more manageable. You kill off cast members, you adjust the setting, and look for ways to make it work. You don't blame the audience because they didn't like it.
 
I love that this thread is 800 pages of an argument where both parties agree that Voyager isn't as good as it should have been.
 
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