Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
The TOS movies were about reviving what had been a dead franchise and expanding on it in ways not done before since all that came before was a barely-defined TV universe.
VOY, not so much. It had it harder due to oversaturation and marginalization of Trek. It's situation was the polar opposite of WOK.
My other point, regarding Abrams and Meyers, was a similar background and approach to Trek. Regardless of personal opinion (some like it, some hate it), there is a similar trend in viewpoint and audience reaction. We can discuss Abrams Trek elsewhere
Okay.
Mine comes from personal experiences.
Not with the "Lost Ship" concept it couldn't.
That's still only enough plot for like a season and a half before it wears itself out.
You can blame the audience for hating any attempts at trying new things, though.
I am amused that it is this long when it didn't start out so well. It began with people groaning about the topic being beaten to death as is the Tuvik debate.
I'm still groaning. GROANING I tells ya!
I don't see why more fans can't just enjoy Voyager for what it is.
Again, call me crazy...but could it be that most of those fans you're referring to watched the series, didn't like it, and therefore can't enjoy the series for "what it is," because "what it is" to them is crap?
[/thread]
Wait a minute, wait a minute...I'm saying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I am crazy.
Again, call me crazy...but could it be that most of those fans you're referring to watched the series, didn't like it, and therefore can't enjoy the series for "what it is," because "what it is" to them is crap?
[/thread]
Wait a minute, wait a minute...I'm saying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I am crazy.
Well, I'm crazy too. For me, VOY is just ok, but had the potential to be so much more. So, it is frustrating to me when I see that potential and then am told that the problem with VOY is me not enjoying it. There are aspects of VOY that I like and find enjoyable, but that doesn't mean that I like every aspect or don't find fault with how the show was run.
The TOS movies were about reviving what had been a dead franchise and expanding on it in ways not done before since all that came before was a barely-defined TV universe.
VOY, not so much. It had it harder due to oversaturation and marginalization of Trek. It's situation was the polar opposite of WOK.
Okay.My other point, regarding Abrams and Meyers, was a similar background and approach to Trek. Regardless of personal opinion (some like it, some hate it), there is a similar trend in viewpoint and audience reaction. We can discuss Abrams Trek elsewhere
Mine comes from personal experiences.
Not with the "Lost Ship" concept it couldn't.
That's still only enough plot for like a season and a half before it wears itself out.
You can blame the audience for hating any attempts at trying new things, though.
First of all, I am not denying your personal experience. It is clear that this is a passionate topic and can be polarizing for many fans. This fact I am aware of from my own personal experience.
So, you'll forgive me if I don't know all the experiences that may have had. I would be nice be helpful to understand a different point of view if there was more than the statement of "audience hatred."
The reasons for VOY's failure are numerous, and the creative forces behind VOY had much more control, studio influence or not, than the audience.
As has been discussed with the Lost Ship premise, just because it is the starting point, does not mean it is the ending point of the show. It should be crafted like a stepped pyramid, except from the top down. Start with a small premise, like the Lost Ship, which obviously could be used up in an episode, or spread out over a 1/2 season. Then you move on to from either the characters you have built up, or from the mysteries you have presented.
Or, if they must not be in the same place every week (a silly rule, but no one ever said it had to make sense) then the characters need to matter. This goes back to the idea of a smaller cast for VOY, but regardless, the consistency of the characters and their motivation makes for far more enjoyable entertainment if I feel like the characters matter.
As an aside, the reason I referenced TWOK and Meyers was two fold. First of all, the studios were constantly meddling with the film and budget, something that has been reported regarding VOY's development. The budget, in particular, was slashed severely, due to the budget overages of TMP. It certainly had more hurdles than is common realized because it is so popular.
Secondly, it was Meyers attitude of working within limits and using them to overcome adversity that I find telling and inspiring. It keeps coming up that the VOY audience resisted change, yet evidence points towards enjoyment of some episodes and positive reception to some change. So, perhaps if the changes were followed through with more consistency then maybe changes would have gone more smoothly.
Despite VOY's limits, there was clearly potential there, whether it stuck with the lost ship premise or not. Lost Ship is just the foundation-do something interesting with the characters and that makes the show. As I have related, the reason why I don't enjoy VOY, for the most part (there are several exceptional episodes that I do enjoy), is the characters. There is an inconsistency to the characters that feels a little jarring for me, so it limits my enjoyment of this series.
That doesn't mean people don't enjoy VOY. I know several people, personally, who love it and it is their favorite series. I guess my point is that there is room for variation rather than blanket statements. VOY isn't the worst TREK ever! but it isn't my favorite.
I can't really give you much more than the reactions of the people I watched the show with and folks on forums throughout the years.
Problem is that the real forces behind the show weren't the ones writing it.
Exactly as I've been saying. I'm also saying that whenever they DID try for a new plot they always got a bad reaction.
Helps if the Producers could make up their minds how the characters were to act (Janeway), and if they hadn't had the bad luck of casting bad actors for certain roles (Beltran, Wang). A smaller cast would've meant easier grip on those who were Centrals.
Like I said, they worked around that by just using lots of leftover stuff from TMP without having to build much new stuff. They made the new costumes for the Officers but the rest were all recycled from TMP with dye.
Like when?
A combination of poor actors and inconsistent directives on how to write the rest of them.
We all have different tastes, that's just how these things work.
Right, which is not the fault of the audience. A point that I belabor because it bothers me that the faults of VOY gets loaded on the audience for not liking VOY. That is unfair and unbalanced in terms of control and power.
You point to your experience, and rightfully so. Unfortunately, especially in this discussion, I don't have those experiences but understand the urge to defend something you see as being unfairly or harshly criticized. I feel the same way about several shows and films.
The disconnect happens, in my opinion, in that we can never know what the entire audience actually thought about VOY during its run. My research and analysis is that VOY had small bumps with things like Scorpion, the Gift, Year of Hell, and others, but those metrics are difficult to fully evaluate. It doesn't negate your experience, mine or anyone else's. It is just that the picture is incomplete. For instance, Seven of Nine was a change, and regardless of how people feel about her presentation, there was definitely an audience reaction in the positive trend in her character, or catsuit (I won't discount that)-YMMV, obviously.
As we have established, the inconsistency from the production team and powers that be, as well as a more competitive market and less interest in Trek led to a downward turn overall, and VOY in particular. But, the inconsistency of the production staff does little to endear VOY to me. It strikes me as odd that there can be this careful analysis of what VOY did poorly and yet an apparent annoyance at fans for not liking VOY. So, I'm not sure why the disconnect but that seems strange to me.
Well, TWOK's troubles may not be enough to impress everyone, but they impress me. I find Meyers attitude to be inspiring and fascinating look behind the scenes. That's me. I just wouldn't treat it like a walk in the park.
Finally, I can enjoy VOY as it, but it is difficult to not recognize the possibility and the unfulfilled potential that it represents. So, its frustrating to me. Also, like I said a lack of interesting characters for me. Again, YMMV.
NO EVERYONE IS WRONG
I do enjoy Voyager for it is, but everyone else is enjoying it wrong.
I enjoy it because of the technobabble. It excites me and fills me with hope for a future when a simple blender will require multi-sylabbic adjectives yelled over the top of it to make it work. Dumber people will fail at this and I will be awesome.
A lot of the general feeling in here seems to be that VOY could have been better than what it was, but in some respects that is true of many shows.
Another critisim that coulld/has been leveled at VOY is over reliance on technobabble, true the other Trek shows have used technobabble to get out of situations.
As others have been pointed out we have different experiances from speaking to fellow fans, my initial experiances were that they were enthusiastic for the concept of the show. But as with anything expectations can make or break a show, so do those who were keeping track with the develpoment of the show via various puplications have a different view than those that simple tuned in without any real pre-knowledge about the show?
Another critisim that coulld/has been leveled at VOY is over reliance on technobabble, true the other Trek shows have used technobabble to get out of situations.
As others have been pointed out we have different experiances from speaking to fellow fans, my initial experiances were that they were enthusiastic for the concept of the show. But as with anything expectations can make or break a show, so do those who were keeping track with the develpoment of the show via various puplications have a different view than those that simple tuned in without any real pre-knowledge about the show?
I also enjoy it because of the tantalizing way they teased us with the Delaney sisters. Week after week we expected to see the Delaney sisters in an Alternate Universe story on either side of the Captain's chair, their hair all Janice Rand, handing Janeway her coffee and making little notes on padds and blowing on their nails as though they had just polished them even though in the future the nail polish will be like in Total Recall and not require actual blowing on. That we never got this I am okay with, because we always believed we were going to get it and it is really all about the journey. The Voyage, even.
I see wot you did thar.
There's a missed holodeck opportunity. Janeway playing with the Captain Proton program where we visit Queen Arachnia's lair. I am loving it.
I also enjoy it because of Chakotay's manliness, the way everyone can depend on him and lean on him, the way he makes the whole ship feel safe and even warm with the coldness of space pressing against the windows. I am sure that was deliberate the scenes with Chakotay being very fatherly and husbandly and big brotherly, well you know GOOD MAN things with the blackness of space as the backdrop so that the contrast really made him glow almost with warm light. Inner light, and it occurs to me now that was an odd name for that TNG ep because Picard was not warm and manly like Chakotay at all. He didn't even like children. He was repressed.
It's a shame the writers didn't do more with that. Having him as the Counselor for the crew would have allowed the character more scope, and give Beltran more do do dramatically that sit around and do little but sit next to Janeway. Not a bad place, but not challenging as an acting role. The few places they did, he played the parts well, especially when there was humor to work with. Like dealing with Harry and his run ins with Seven. His advice in 'Omega Directive' that Harry learn to adapt was a hoot.
Similar threads
