Because...
Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
You wanted three seasons of Riker pulling himself and moaning about the Pegasus?
You know I loved ENT but just imagine if they had just continued on from TATV, there was a last minute reprieve and season 5+ was the Riker's Problems show. People complain about varying incarnations of Trek NOW but my god it could have been so much worse.
You know I loved ENT but just imagine if they had just continued on from TATV, there was a last minute reprieve and season 5+ was the Riker's Problems show. People complain about varying incarnations of Trek NOW but my god it could have been so much worse.
I would have watched that religiously.
By religiously you mean flagellation?
:: assembles her bug swatting implements ::
I never hated VOYAGER, or any other STAR TREK series. It's all just gravy after The Next Generation, isn't it? The one thing Rick Berman got absolutely right was the need for continuous STAR TREK being on the air simultaneously! This is something he doesn't receive enough credit for, it seems ...
I liked Voyager when it first aired but I was always more of a Next Gen and DS9 viewer.
Recently though I have taken advantage of the Syfy Chanel in the UK showing all 3 from start to finish and found myself enjoying more Voyager episodes than the other two, especially TNG which surprised me.
Recently though I have taken advantage of the Syfy Chanel in the UK showing all 3 from start to finish and found myself enjoying more Voyager episodes than the other two, especially TNG which surprised me.
Here's what's essentially wrong with topics like this: it is not discussing a show; it's discussing fans -- and is therefore essentially OFF TOPIC for this forum. We're not supposed to address personal issues here.
Not that I haven't been tempted, too; I definitely have my opinion of fans. But it is essentially trolling that group of fans -- and so, not a fit subject to bring up. It's doomed to failure.
Not that I haven't been tempted, too; I definitely have my opinion of fans. But it is essentially trolling that group of fans -- and so, not a fit subject to bring up. It's doomed to failure.
This exchange alone makes this thread worthy of archiving in my library of love. teacake, you crack me UP! Feel free to put me in a box and poke me.
Geez that's one of the biggest stretches I have seen in a long time.
I am not just wanting to talk about fans of Star Trek, I'm wanting to discuss the various reasons and frames of mind with Star Trek fans directly regarding Star Trek Voyager... Thus ON TOPIC AND A VALID TOPIC.
Secondly, I am not asking you or anybody else about your "Personal Issues." I am not asking about your personal life, your relationships, your disabilities, race, gender, etc... Nor am I targeting you personally or attacking you personally over such things. Therefore no rules/guidelines are infringed.
Thirdly, nobody is forced to post anything in here, nor have I demanded this or that. If you do not wish to contribute to the topic at hand then you don't have to post. There are many other topics that may suit your tastes.
General forum guidelines in most forums dictate that members are not permitted to use personal insults towards other members. If nobody is specifically targeted with a comment, then no member has been insulted.
This is disregarding generalize racist, homophobic, etc. Comments and Posts, which are covered by another set of rules.
So far I have not seen anybody in this topic breaking any forum rules or directly (or indirectly) targeting any members in here (or a ST group of fans for that matter.)
I have seen a few posts swerve off topic a bit, but as the thread creator, I have no issue with that.
However, you just admitted that you won't express your opinion because it would be "Trolling" a specific group of ST fans.
If you can not express your opinion on the topic without resorting to trolling or personal insults (or otherwise breaking forum rules) then that is not the fault of the thread or anybody else in here.
Thus far, I believe all the posts by other members in here have been quite mature and have given decently positive feedback.
There is nothing wrong with having a thread that focuses on constructive criticism in regards to the relationship of a show to it's fans.... Where things went right and where they went wrong.
I see plenty of these in the other sections like TOS, TNG and DS9 where people tear apart episodes and characters with much more scrutiny than what I see here. I'm not even looking for such a thing here. I'm merely asking why you liked or didn't like the show overall and why you think others may have liked or disliked the show compared to other ST shows. This goes hand in hand with the show (Voyager) and the viewers of that show (ST Fans and Casual Viewers alike)
It's how one improves upon a show or movie, etc. If you plan to make another one, it's good to hear people's opinions on what they think you got right and what they think should change or be improved.
And you don't even have to answer if you don't want to. That's your choice.
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Voyager was rushed into production compared to it's sibling show DS9.
With DS9, Berman and Piller had been planning it since 1990 or so and took the time to think it and the characters up and set things up appropriately. With VOY, it was pretty rushed in all ways.
The fact the show had a "Gilligan" plot wherein they had to constantly fail at every turn or else the show would be over didn't help matters. They should have thought up an actual Non-Gilligan plot to drive the show past season 1.
But there's also that VOY's audience was much more harsh on it than on the other shows. Even TNG got a warmer reception than VOY did when it began.
With DS9, Berman and Piller had been planning it since 1990 or so and took the time to think it and the characters up and set things up appropriately. With VOY, it was pretty rushed in all ways.
The fact the show had a "Gilligan" plot wherein they had to constantly fail at every turn or else the show would be over didn't help matters. They should have thought up an actual Non-Gilligan plot to drive the show past season 1.
But there's also that VOY's audience was much more harsh on it than on the other shows. Even TNG got a warmer reception than VOY did when it began.
It was the same audience.
Seven years less stupid.
You find someone ignorant about Star Trek, and expose them to the pilots.
They'll pick Caretaker over Encounter at Farpoint every time.
Seven years less stupid.
You find someone ignorant about Star Trek, and expose them to the pilots.
They'll pick Caretaker over Encounter at Farpoint every time.
You can split the audiance for VOY in to two general camps. Those for who VOY was their introduction to ST and for those who VOY was their 2nd/3rd or 4th ST show. Each audiance group will no doubt bring a differing view point and the strengths and weakness of the show. There is also the fact that TNG for it's first few years had realtive little in the way of genre competition this wasn't the case for DSN and VOY which had increasing genre competition. So yes perhaps TNG had it easier because there really wasn't much else out in the Sci-Fi genre. Even in the UK by the time TNG hit our shores (on TV) DW had been cancelled and just about the only Sci-Fi prgramme on was Red Dwarf.
Some might disagree but at the end of the day VOY played it safe, re-treating much of the same ground as TNG did, VOY was sometimes refered to as TNG-lite which is basically saying it's like TNG but not as good. It's premise leant towards a more serialised format but what we got was a more episodic format. That isn't to say VOY was all bad it did have it's moments and Picardo was one of the highlights of the show.
Some might disagree but at the end of the day VOY played it safe, re-treating much of the same ground as TNG did, VOY was sometimes refered to as TNG-lite which is basically saying it's like TNG but not as good. It's premise leant towards a more serialised format but what we got was a more episodic format. That isn't to say VOY was all bad it did have it's moments and Picardo was one of the highlights of the show.
They didn't have much anywhere else to go with a premise as constrained as theirs.
That's like saying Doctor Who should've been more serialized instead of several multi-part standalone stories.
I like Voyager. I can't say that I would be willing to re-watch even the bad episodes, like I would for TNG. The hammy acting in Conspiracy is almost worth watching the whole episode for.
The Hirogen are cool. The random away mission episodes are generally pretty good. Neelix isn't as annoying as people make him out to be. I think the hate for Neelix is exaggerated. The Ocampa were a pretty dumb idea, but they get rid of that chick before too long.
Voyager hate is hard for me to figure out. There are some really stupid ideas here and there, but if you just overlook the few bad episodes you can see a lot of good ones.
The same can't be said for Enterprise. Enterprise was terrible and deserved to fail. There is nothing good about it. All of Voyager's faults are worse in Enterprise, and it has none of the redeeming factors of at least seeing strange new worlds. I don't see how people can hate Janeway because she's bossy but accept the completely wooden characters of Enterprise. I'd rather there be no Trek than there be Enterprise again.
The Hirogen are cool. The random away mission episodes are generally pretty good. Neelix isn't as annoying as people make him out to be. I think the hate for Neelix is exaggerated. The Ocampa were a pretty dumb idea, but they get rid of that chick before too long.
Voyager hate is hard for me to figure out. There are some really stupid ideas here and there, but if you just overlook the few bad episodes you can see a lot of good ones.
The same can't be said for Enterprise. Enterprise was terrible and deserved to fail. There is nothing good about it. All of Voyager's faults are worse in Enterprise, and it has none of the redeeming factors of at least seeing strange new worlds. I don't see how people can hate Janeway because she's bossy but accept the completely wooden characters of Enterprise. I'd rather there be no Trek than there be Enterprise again.
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