Why do people hate Nemesis?

[Itisnotlogical]

Come on, it wasn't THAT bad. I've met with various reasons as to why people didn't like it from "it didn't do well at the box office" to "Nemesis was bullshit". As a matter of fact, it's second favorite of mine to The Search for Spock. Sure, it did do bad at the box office so I've heard, but if Titanic didn't sell as many tickets, VHS's and limited edition DVD box sets (complete with calendars no less) as it did would it not be a good movie as well?

 

[Plecostomus]

It has a few major plot holes, it botches up some major fan assumptions and it ripped off many details and ideas from The Best Movie Ever, Wrath Of Kahn.

I for one enjoyed it. It did what it was supposed to do: Entertain me for several hours.

 

[KobayashiMaru13]

The movie itself was good.

It went down the toilet when Data died.

 

[Chrisisall]

Come on, it wasn't THAT bad.

No, it was okay. I just had some problems with Shinzon's motivation. It might have made more sense if he was aiming to start an intergalactic war to mess with the Romulans than go off against Earth or Picard. But whatever, it was entertaining, I'd put it on the same level as STIII or V.
WAAAAAAY better than that MESS Generations.

 

[Hambone]

WAAAAAAY better than that MESS Generations.

I've watched Generations a few times. Not the greatest, far from the worst.

I've yet to make it through Nemesis. Half a dozen times I've popped in the DVD, made it 40 or 50 minutes in, then shut the damn thing off. Yes, I think it's that bad. Maybe if I "consumed" before my next (attempted) viewing, it would help.

I don't know who this movie was made for. The actors knew it was bad, the movie-going public knew it was bad, and Star Trek fans knew it was really bad. The director didn't know one way or another, since he's admitted he didn't know anything about the movie he was making.

Data dies in the end, huh?

 

[Chrisisall]

Data dies in the end, huh?

Not really; Spot would have felt it.

 

[FlapJoy]

I liked how dark it was, I was curious to see more of the Romulans, and their homeworld, and I loved the final space fight (he rammed the Enterprise right up Shizon's ass, it was like Picard saying: "Ok, Ya know what Junior? FUCK YOU !!")... but it was painfully slow at times. The Data subplot seemed pointless. I didn't think Data needed to sacrifice himself, although technically he is reborn in B4's body, I just felt it gave no real character growth or plot advancment or even any emotional beat as we all saw the B4 twist coming a mile a way. I felt "Piclone's" Romulan handlers were overly made up, they needed to dial down that Nosferatu looking face make-up.

But the dumbest reason I didn't like it: I couldn't get past Shizon looking NOTHING like Picard. I know he was a younger clone of Picard, was beaten up and suffered broken noses and jaws and other enviromental changes to his face, but I just couldn't buy it, and it totally took me out of the movie.

I wish they'd have one more chance at another Next Generation film. I think we could still get a good story ready for the big screen (or straight to video)

 

[Chrisisall]

they needed to dial down that Nosferatu looking face make-up.

But the dumbest reason I didn't like it: I couldn't get past Shizon looking NOTHING like Picard.

Yeah, that takes some REAL suspension for me. Luckily, I can achieve it.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

First, i have to admit, i dont know what the second choice in your poll means. (forgive me, i'm old).

Ok, i didnt HATE Nemesis. But it is definitely at the bottom of my list.
First off, i think the director sucked. I hate the fact that he was clueless and i really think it shows. The wedding was embarrassing. OY! Picard's wedding speech was embarrassing. And so out of character. His driving around like Mario Andretti and giggling like a schoolgirl was silly. All the actors looked like they were sleepwalking.
And Data died. Yeah yeah, i know we have B4. BFD.

All that said, i still don't hate it. I really just don't love it.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

^^
Sorry about my hip young lingo. It's essentially the next form down of "I didn't like it".

 

[Chrisisall]

^^
Sorry about my hip young lingo. It's essentially the next form down of "I didn't like it".

Peeps who use the word "hip", aren't.

 

[cooleddie74]

It took a great concept(a Picard clone raised in less-than-ideal and healthy circumstances and warped as a result)and just let it flounder. And I'm not even going to mention all the plot loopholes and continuity issues with past episodes and movies.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

^^
Sorry about my hip young lingo. It's essentially the next form down of "I didn't like it".

Peeps who use the word "hip", aren't.

 

[JarodRussell]

The casting of Shinzon. The fact that it was supposed to be the final TNG movie yet they missed so many opportunities. A story about Romulus seeking peace with the Federation without Spock/Leonard Nimoy. Admiral Janeway. The very crappy, un-imaginary, low budget production design (that wallpaper in "Alaska", oh my god, making a desert look alien by using some color filter, aww, the awfully small sets (they even reduced the size of the engine room because of budget issues)), the B-4 subplot badly done (from that sudden positronic alarm on the bridge to the search on the planet (was the attack on that planet already part of Shinzon's scheme?) to the fact that nobody cares about giving that thing all of Data's memory, nobody thinks about Lore, to the crappy Katra-thing they pulled off), Data's death was horribly done (but so was the entire final showdown)... I could go on, and I haven't even mentioned the countless plotholes yet.

The entire movie needed an overhaul. I haven't seen something like that in my whole life. The Final Frontier was a much better movie than this. At least TFF had a heart & soul and was enjoyable. Nemesis has a lot of flaws beyond belief and has no soul.

And it could have been so good. It had so much potential. Being the final Star Trek movie, it was supposed to come full circle with the entire movie franchise, it was supposed to come full circle with TNG, that Romulan plot was great, Picard having to fight his own clone, who's part of an old Romulan scheme to infiltrate Starfleet... my god, that could have been EPIC.

But the writer and director totally fucked this thing up.

I better stop now, otherwise I'm going to ramble on the whole day.

 

[T'Cal]

I have to say that I panned this movie at first for a few reasons. The characters were written poorly and often out of character. Shinzon was not a good villian lacking real motivation. There were Romulans but they were used in a boring way. They had Romulans but there was nothing substantial about Unification. It had some great ideas but they were handled badly. But most of all it was because it performed so badly at the box office that it made it unlikely that we will see the Next Gen cast again and that is unforgivable. I would've preferred if they didn't have B4 in the story at all, if we had seen the wedding on Betazed, if the actor who played young Picard in "Rascals" had played young Shinzon, and if Patrick Stewart had played the rapidly aging Shinzon about midway through the film.

Still, it had some wonderful scenes such as Data's sacrificial death, the final scene with Riker and Picard, the deleted scene with Picard and Data, etc. Unlike with GEN, I find that I am more tollerant of NEM with each viewing.

 

[Chrisisall]

Unlike with GEN, I find that I am more tollerant of NEM with each viewing.

I want to like GEN so much, but I just can't.
It's THE ONLY one I can't look at.
Maybe once more sometime in the next decade....

 

[Yeoman Randi]

^^
Sorry about my hip young lingo. It's essentially the next form down of "I didn't like it".

Thanks for explaining it to an old lady!

Unlike with GEN, I find that I am more tollerant of NEM with each viewing.

I want to like GEN so much, but I just can't.
It's THE ONLY one I can't look at.
Maybe once more sometime in the next decade....

*sigh* and i LOVE Generations. Yes, it has plot holes the size of Nevada, but it is such a wonderful blend of old and new. And as many times as i have seen it, i STILL cry BOTH times Kirk "dies". And i think it has some of the finest acting done by TNG gang. I could go on and on but this is a Why i hate Nem thread. I should start a Why i love Gen thread!

 

[Chrisisall]

I should start a Why i love Gen thread!

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=101231
Here ya go.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I was pretty surprised at how poorly it did, ensuring no sequel. I think NEM dies from a million papercuts. It actually shares many of the same flaws as STXI, which was a huge hit. Main one being the motivation of the Antagonist. Of Nero and Shinzon, I think Shinzon is the far more interesting character.
But NEM keeps having these near-misses. The fun scene with the buggy that is a huge anachronism. The tired, washed-out, cliche-on-a-stick B4 plot (despite being well and amusingly played - and a fine line to walk, as B4 could easily have been offensive) The good character scenes, that made TNG what it was, on the cutting room floor. The less-than-satisfying battle. The fanboy Scimitar.
The parallels between Nero and his Doomsday ship and Shinzon with his pretty strong. Yet ANOTHER mad villain who wants to blow up a planet(s). You'd think the new movie producers would have stayed the hell away from anything Nemesis.
It's also interesting to see how the turds of STXI are polished, while very similar ones from NEM are called out endlessly.

 

[JarodRussell]

Yeah, nuTrek is actually pretty much a carbon copy of Nemesis, only with better effects and faster editing. Both merged together (the best of both without the flaws) could have made for an awesome TNG movie.