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Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

Your average healthy man tries to masturbate 4 to 6 times a day, but can only usually find time and privacy to get away with this solitary recreational thrill maybe twice a day.

That's a conservative estimate for a male surrounded by millions of human beings with extensive distracting duties and obligations.

I think it's safe to say that Chakotay had free and unrestricted reign of his personal space if Kathryn was so busy with her monkey that she failed to notice him landscaping and building a spa resort under her very pretty little nose.

So he probably masturbated almost 400 times during their 60 day vacation from Voyager.

The logical conclusions of this supposition...

a. Chakotay didn't have the energy left to pursue her, what with all his needs being satisfied, that what she had to offer was redundant because of his intensive affection self supplied.

b. If there's anything a thousand shows called CSI have taught us is that as she was living inbetween hundreds of overlapping "crime scenes" that she must have noticed some evidence of his hobby, but pretended not to understand, and that it was this monster sized denial which grew into the most encompassing iron curtain that is the real reason she spent so much time with her monkey. Cause and effect.

c. Kathryn's ability to not think about him like that was absolute, so it's just precious that she didn't understand the mystery of the 1001 vanishing hand towels.

d. Whether he was aware or not, Kathryn kept catching him in the act. Was he careless, or was it an even clumsier invitation to participate than the Angry warrior Speech? In either case he was an idiot and if she had to spend her time with some bloke who can't stop touching himself, she picked the monkey.

e. She was frightened, that if he did that to himself 200 times a month then she might have to have that be done to herself 200 times a month, and she just wasn't prepared for that sort of stress on her middle extremities after opting for the last two years to cross her legs and wait for Mark.

f. What was he using as a mental aid? Did he have PADD porn, or a healthy imagination stocked by a wankbank clearly in the black? In one case he was cheating on her with many other women, or one special lady he was obsessed with, who was probably most certainly her, although not the "real" her, which was intellectual property theft at best and rape by proxy at worst, neither action of which is worth rewarding with an adult relationship.

G. His peyote machine that creates a borglike hive mind where they can have lucid dreams in completely program-able environments is without a doubt a knocking shop by another name, but for "spiritual" reasons, no matter how many spirit guides he nails (Furries represent?), Chakotay wouldn't let her abuse/debase this religious artefact with her own thoughts on romance and release, which is if you think about it a sort of ransom by a sort of emotional terrorist. Only a fool negotiates with terrorists. (If the saftey protocols on a Federation replicator won't produce "chocolate" I think it's highly unlikely that she fabricate her own peyote machine in the camp on New Earth, if she didn't think to mock one up before leaving Voyager.) he had her over a barrel and she doesn't like bullies. She'd eventually beat him into a coma to get that peyote machine because she is a good person who he should share his possessions with

h. She can smell the sex on him. The constant odour permeating off his pants must make the lady roll her eyes and yawn about how predictable and simple men are, that there's no way that she could respect him enough to take him on as a lover if he can't escape perpetuating a farcical caricature.

i. In all likely hood, she was rubbing one out as often and as skilfully as he was on the the opposite side of the camp. They probably subconsciously worked out a scheduling rotor to clockworkilly avoid accidents, but if "point A" was that he was too buggered, then "point G" is that she was just as buggered. They were double buggered. (Buggered just means tired. It's a homonym.)

j. Janeway didn't want to ruin it for him? Really after a night with his dream girl, how is he supposed to go back to playing with his monkey? That's just rude. Besides he'd be chemically dependant on himself and any attempt to reacclimatize his metabolism for just and only relationship-sex might kill him if he comes down too cold turkey. She probably likes him too much as a friend to break him like that.
 
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Your average healthy man tries to masturbate 4 to 6 times a day, but can only usually find time and privacy to get away with this solitary recreational thrill maybe twice a day.

That's a conservative estimate for a male surrounded by millions of human beings with extensive distracting duties and obligations.

I think it's safe to say that Chakotay had free and unrestricted reign of his personal space if Kathryn was so busy with her monkey that she failed to notice him landscaping and building a spa resort under her very pretty little nose.

So he probably masturbated almost 400 times during their 60 day vacation from Voyager.

The logical conclusions of this supposition...

a. Chakotay didn't have the energy left to pursue her, what with all his needs being satisfied, that what she had to offer was redundant because of his intensive affection self supplied.

b. If there's anything a thousand shows called CSI have taught us is that as she was living inbetween hundreds of overlapping "crime scenes" that she must have noticed some evidence of his hobby, but pretended not to understand, and that it was this monster sized denial which grew into the most encompassing iron curtain that is the real reason she spent so much time with her monkey. Cause and effect.

c. Kathryn's ability to not think about him like that was absolute, so it's just precious that she didn't understand the mystery of the 1001 vanishing hand towels.

d. Whether he was aware or not, Kathryn kept catching him in the act. Was he careless, or was it an even clumsier invitation to participate than the Angry warrior Speech? In either case he was an idiot and if she had to spend her time with some bloke who can't stop touching himself, she picked the monkey.

e. She was frightened, that if he did that to himself 200 times a month then she might have to have that be done to herself 200 times a month, and she just wasn't prepared for that sort of stress on her middle extremities after opting for the last two years to cross her legs and wait for Mark.

f. What was he using as a mental aid? Did he have PADD porn, or a healthy imagination stocked by a wankbank clearly in the black? In one case he was cheating on her with many other women, or one special lady he was obsessed with, who was probably most certainly her, although not the "real" her, which was intellectual property theft at best and rape by proxy at worst, neither action of which is worth rewarding with an adult relationship.

G. His peyote machine that creates a borglike hive mind where they can have lucid dreams in completely program-able environments is without a doubt a knocking shop by another name, but for "spiritual" reasons, no matter how many spirit guides he nails (Furries represent?), Chakotay wouldn't let her abuse/debase this religious artefact with her own thoughts on romance and release, which is if you think about it a sort of ransom by a sort of emotional terrorist. Only a fool negotiates with terrorists. (If the saftey protocols on a Federation replicator won't produce "chocolate" I think it's highly unlikely that she fabricate her own peyote machine in the camp on New Earth, if she didn't think to mock one up before leaving Voyager.) he had her over a barrel and she doesn't like bullies. She'd eventually beat him into a coma to get that peyote machine because she is a good person who he should share his possessions with

h. She can smell the sex on him. The constant odour permeating off his pants must make the lady roll her eyes and yawn about how predictable and simple men are, that there's no way that she could respect him enough to take him on as a lover if he can't escape perpetuating a farcical caricature.

i. In all likely hood, she was rubbing one out as often and as skilfully as he was on the the opposite side of the camp. They probably subconsciously worked out a scheduling rotor to clockworkilly avoid accidents, but if "point A" was that he was too buggered, then "point G" is that she was just as buggered. They were double buggered. (Buggered just means tired. It's a homonym.)

j. Janeway didn't want to ruin it for him? Really after a night with his dream girl, how is he supposed to go back to playing with his monkey? That's just rude. Besides he'd be chemically dependant on himself and any attempt to reacclimatize his metabolism for just and only relationship-sex might kill him if he comes down too cold turkey. She probably likes him too much as a friend to break him like that.

:wtf: How does the discussion thread of 'Why did Chakotay choose to be with Seven instead of Janeway?' turn into 'Why did Chakotay choose to masturbate to himself instead of be with Janeway? :confused:

And I'm fairly certain they mentioned that the monkey came and went a couple of times. It wasn't a regular pet they kept. I highly doubt Janeway spent much time with the moneky at all because it just kept running away/stood there and wouldn't let her get to close to it.

I may be J/C defensive here but in no way do I see Chakotay having such a weakness for being alone with Kathryn on New Earth that he has to masturbate 400 times a day. They didn't really need to persue one other, they were the only one's on the planet, if it happened it happened. But I don't think that Chakotay would have lost his sanity just because he couldn't get any with Kathryn.
 
400 times a day?

Really?

24 thousand times in 2 months.

Really?

That's 16 times an hour.

4 times a minute.

Once every 15 seconds.

...

I wasn't assuming that Chakotay was playing with himself much more or less because he was marooned on a deserted planet, or that she was trapped on a deserted planet with Janeway.

It's just what men do when they are inside or outside a relationship or getting it regular from another person or people. A natural drive that will persist no matter the obstacle.

There wasn't a sexual vacuum on New Earth no matter the limts Janeway thought she was imposing.

"sigh"
 
Potato, potato. Well like I said the episode is based on your own perception. I'm keeping with the J/C version, but I guess you'll keep to the Chakotay masturbating version. All is fair.
 
But it isn't just Resolutions.

Its every man in every episode in every series.

(Except Kirk. But that explains much.)

This revelation doesn't preclude J/C.

In some ways it helps.

Remember There's Something about Mary?

"You don't walk about with a fully loaded weapon".

Chakotay would be less of an idiot dog, and more likely to seem like an eligible mate if his penis doesn't have the strength to take command and throw him at every piece of presented tail.

Considering the XO's continual perpetual state of serenity it's likely that his lizard is almost always drained.
 
Potato, potato. Well like I said the episode is based on your own perception. I'm keeping with the J/C version, but I guess you'll keep to the Chakotay masturbating version. All is fair.
Guy is buggin'.
No way is a man over 40 masturbating 4 to 6 times a day.
Older libido doesn't allow it.
 
It's like that old philosophical conundrum: "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" the answer to which is obviously "As many as want to."

Even though I did say that he'd want to jerk off 4 to 6 times a day but it's only logistically possible to get away with doing it twice, I quickly forgot I had said that as I started tapping away with my calculator...

It's a question of balance.

If Chuckles, because of his extreme age (giggle) only needs to choke his chicken once a month and he doesn't, he will be out of whack, off centre and in trouble. Then, because all men are liars, there's also this major deficit between between wants and needs that he might be chewing off more than he can swallow.

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Equilibrium and harmony.
 
Potato, potato. Well like I said the episode is based on your own perception. I'm keeping with the J/C version, but I guess you'll keep to the Chakotay masturbating version. All is fair.
Guy is buggin'.
No way is a man over 40 masturbating 4 to 6 times a day.
Older libido doesn't allow it.

Plus he'd be completely blind. :lol:
 
Anyway Guy's theory, colourful as always, isn't necessary if you accept the fact that she wasn't going to jeapordise her authority, even stuck on a planet with him. It just wasn't in her makeup to have an affair with one of her own senior officers. He knew it too. Maybe if he'd had a couple of years to work on her on their own but even then I doubt it. That's what I mean by 'not interested'. What I should have said is 'not interested enough to lose her self-control'.
 
Ah but the important thing is that she needed self-control in the first place! Hello feelings! And who wouldn't, cause it's Chakotay :drool: :drool:

But i'll give her props for restraining against him all the way to the Alpha Quadrant, my self-control certainly would not exceed that :lol:
 
It doesn't count as selfcontrol yet.

Cheating on Mark, even though he thought she was dead and this is exactly when he would have been lining up his ducks to settle into some wedded bliss bullpooh with some funeral crashing skank.

Even if he pulled a groupie at her funeral, this was a bit quick.

You don't think Mark had a few fiancées in Star Ships across the Alpha Quadrant coming into port to service his duplicitous and underhanded advances?
 
You don't think Mark had a few fiancées in Star Ships across the Alpha Quadrant coming into port to service his duplicitous and underhanded advances?

If he were this type of guy, then why bother letting Janeway know he's engaged at all? I mean, even though Voyager was able to have a bit of contact with the AQ, the expectation still remains that it will take quite a while to get back. He could still have his multiple lovers while continuing to play the dutiful, waiting fiance to Janeway and betting on the fact that one or both of them could be dead by the time Voyager arrives.
 
The spotlight.

The only reason Tiger Woods could bang around is because few if anyone knew he was married. Now however that he actually is single, becoming single, there's too much of a stigma attached to tapping that, that tapping that is suddenly too daunting.

The very huge public funeral after the considered loss of Voyager would have painted Mark as the grieving widower speechigfying the purity of his love for the woman, on a podium in front of a billion holocameras which would have ceased all of his more sane relationships leaving only batshitters and the Amish to retied into the nook of.

Do you think that Amish in the Star trek universe noticed the third world war, and do they accept aliens into their communities, or did they colonize some agrarian farm world as soon as the technology was available?
 
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Because a relationship between two middle-aged adults wouldn't do much for the ratings, but any scene with Seven -- especially a romantic one -- would.
After re-watching it, knowing what happened during ENT, this is the logical explanation for all the Seven-centric stuff they put in VOY.


To be fair, there is also a large number of fans who are happy J/C did not happen. ;)
I'm in that camp, though I'd prefer not having any C/7 stuff pushed down my throat either. It was quite obvious that they regarded each other as more than friends and I can't be alone in noticing that she drifted away from leaning at Tuvok for support to Chakotay and the warmth that grew between them. Janeway makes it clear though several times during the series that she can't indulge in a relationship. Her obligations is to the crew and getting them home.

I liked it the way it was developed during the first seasons because it left a lot to imagination. It wasn't intrusive either. They were grown ups with a lot of responsibility and had their priorities straight. Good enough for me.

The Seven thing? Ugh. Not believable at all.
 
You know, I loved this series as a kid, still do, but I HATED the whole thing with chakotay and seven... I mean, the emotionless girl with the passionate Indian guy? Chakotay and janeway had a much better chemistry! They're like the Duh couple. The of course they end up together. I'd have preferred seven over admiral janeway as a death.

Seven is emotionally stunted. She is a better choice for the Doctor.
 
Yes, they unequivocally were.

I don't fancy myself the shipping sort. Most romances bore me to tears. But as a youth I watched the very obvious, very intellectually entertaining pseudo-romance of Seven of Nine and The Doctor go through believable and downright intriguing twists and turns only to be deactivated at the last minute.

Hell, correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while) but didn't "Renaissance Man" have The Doctor speaking up candidly about his feelings for Seven when he thought he was going to perish? Wasn't that the penultimate episode? If I'm right (and I hope I'm wrong, but I think I'm right) then that's just ridiculous.
Agreed..
 
The feeling I get through the series is that, for Janeway, the feelings may be there, but she doesn't think she can let herself have them AND be an efficient captain. Whether that's true or not from our perspective is irrelevant, Janeway seems to think this and continues to rebuff Chakotay. I don't think it's that unbelievable that he might give up trying after seven years.

But ending up with Seven? Yeah, that was a bit :wtf:

Although, a pet theory I enjoy entertaining is that Admiral Janeway, who has obviously changed enough to think it's perfectly alright to try and go back to alter history, could also have changed enough that she may also see going back as an opportunity to rectify the fact that she pushed Chakotay away. After all, she knows herself, and she knows Seven. Who's to say she didn't drop the bombshell (that Chakotay and Seven get married) knowing that they would each react exactly the way they did:

Janeway, when told Seven dies in the arms of her husband, doesn't repeat "Seven" or "dies" but the word "husband" with a look of consternation. If you take into account that the crew seems unable to keep secrets and Janeway is Chakotay's friend, it's not impossible to think that she has at least an inkling that Chakotay and Seven are dating. Thus the repeated word and the dismayed look are a reaction to the fact that she just extrapolated the most likely husband for Seven. Especially if (and this works nicely into the theory that Admiral Janeway is attempting to do this on purpose, since she's also about to send them back to Earth waaaay earlier than she herself got back) there was a part of her that hoped Chakotay would remain available indefinitely so that once they did get home and went their separate ways (career-wise) then she could allow him to pursue her.

As for Seven, if I recall correctly, we don't get any kind of absolute affirmation that she and Chakotay stay together. In fact, it's pretty telling that her reaction is to immediately pull away, even knowing that they're working on changing the timeline and thus taking away the situation in which she dies. Given her issues with attempting to become more human and less borg, I can easily see this being a concept that continues to bother her and, as a result, she continues pulling away from Chakotay, even once they're back on Earth.

Like I said, though, it's just a little pet theory and honestly, it could be tweaked to suit the Janeway/Seven shippers, too. :lol: All in good fun.
I had hoped that once they got home, janeway/chakotay could have gotten together. I kinda felt like the writers cheated their way through Endgame and didn't provide the best ending. Truly. I mean, all the build up through three seasons and they never even end up together..
 
I had hoped that once they got home, janeway/chakotay could have gotten together. I kinda felt like the writers cheated their way through Endgame and didn't provide the best ending. Truly. I mean, all the build up through three seasons and they never even end up together..
Though I believe Erernsl Tide had chakotay/janeway together?
 
Seven and the Doctor were the obvious choice. They had been developing that one from the beginning. They were at similar stages in their emotional development and the Doctor clearly had romantic feelings for her.

Similarly, Chakotay and Janeway were being developed to be a couple for years but trek doesn't like captains in committed relationships. The episode where the 2 were facing being stranded alone in a planet showed the attraction plainly.

Seven was hot but had the emotional level of a teenager. I don't think the relationship made sense to anyone but I don't think it was Beltran's decision but a production one. Fortunately the books tried to refocus on Chakotay/Janeway but they seemed to have forgotten about Doctor/Seven.
Eternal tide does have janeway/chakotay as a couple then? May need to buy it then..
 
They didn't know what to do with a plot that didn't have Seven in the lead--and even though the finale was obviously coming up that whole season, they couldn't decide who would die (because that is the new way to end all Trek series--hence Trip's death in the TNG conclusion of ENT).

At first, it was going to be Seven, for sure, but what a downer that would be. So, instead, they brought back Admiral Janeway for the Red Shirt Supreme--assimilated and killed, not a downer at all because we still have the captain carrying on for her.

However, Seven couldn't just sit around filing her nails, so what to do? Pair her up with Chuckles for some much-needed "romantic" action in what has to be one of the lamest B plots in history. Don't bother with any sort of build up for them as a couple or worry about a complete lack of previous chemistry between the two characters. The fact that it is the fourth date should erase four years of lukewarm friendship. Ignore the touching and very effective "Human Error" that finally made Seven a character one could feel sorry for because certain aspects of humanity were forever beyond her reach.

It's the finale, so who cares about continuity or whether this "romance" would screw up two characters as we knew them? The producers had moved on to a better, edgier ENT that would make VOY look like slop.

Right? :guffaw:
Pair her with chuckles? Really? And good points!
 
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