Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?
- Thread starter Lorthos
- Start date
Behind-the-scenes chest-thumping on the part of Robert Beltran, I'm told.
But I'm sure someone else can either back that up or prove it incorrect.
But I'm sure someone else can either back that up or prove it incorrect.
^^
What Jeff said.
What Jeff said.
Two reasons....
See them?
See them?
Two reasons....
See them?
Lmao yeah my girlfriend told me he got with her cause she was better looking.
I don't get how Beltran could have ever had that kind of pull. Frakking Harry Kim was more important to the show than Chakotay was.
There was 'talk' of Robert Beltran being unhappy with how his character was underused on the show.
I don't know whether this is accurate or not, or how it translates into him having a relationship with 7.
There was a foreshadowing of this in 'Human-Error' though because 7 made a decision in the end to date Chakotay.
And the 'cargobay picnic' was apparently their 4th date.
So, they could have been dating for at least 2 to 4 weeks before Engdame commenced.
And when 7's cortical node experienced issues because of a too high emotional state, she said it would be inefficient to resume with the relationship (which she apparently decided to at least but on a back-burner).
I don't know whether this is accurate or not, or how it translates into him having a relationship with 7.
There was a foreshadowing of this in 'Human-Error' though because 7 made a decision in the end to date Chakotay.
And the 'cargobay picnic' was apparently their 4th date.
So, they could have been dating for at least 2 to 4 weeks before Engdame commenced.
And when 7's cortical node experienced issues because of a too high emotional state, she said it would be inefficient to resume with the relationship (which she apparently decided to at least but on a back-burner).
But even Jeri Ryan IIRC said that the C/7 thing came out of the blue. She had asked TPTB during Human Error and Natural Law if there was going to "be" something between C/7 and was assured the answer was "no".
They didn't know what to do with a plot that didn't have Seven in the lead--and even though the finale was obviously coming up that whole season, they couldn't decide who would die (because that is the new way to end all Trek series--hence Trip's death in the TNG conclusion of ENT).
At first, it was going to be Seven, for sure, but what a downer that would be. So, instead, they brought back Admiral Janeway for the Red Shirt Supreme--assimilated and killed, not a downer at all because we still have the captain carrying on for her.
However, Seven couldn't just sit around filing her nails, so what to do? Pair her up with Chuckles for some much-needed "romantic" action in what has to be one of the lamest B plots in history. Don't bother with any sort of build up for them as a couple or worry about a complete lack of previous chemistry between the two characters. The fact that it is the fourth date should erase four years of lukewarm friendship. Ignore the touching and very effective "Human Error" that finally made Seven a character one could feel sorry for because certain aspects of humanity were forever beyond her reach.
It's the finale, so who cares about continuity or whether this "romance" would screw up two characters as we knew them? The producers had moved on to a better, edgier ENT that would make VOY look like slop.
Right?
At first, it was going to be Seven, for sure, but what a downer that would be. So, instead, they brought back Admiral Janeway for the Red Shirt Supreme--assimilated and killed, not a downer at all because we still have the captain carrying on for her.
However, Seven couldn't just sit around filing her nails, so what to do? Pair her up with Chuckles for some much-needed "romantic" action in what has to be one of the lamest B plots in history. Don't bother with any sort of build up for them as a couple or worry about a complete lack of previous chemistry between the two characters. The fact that it is the fourth date should erase four years of lukewarm friendship. Ignore the touching and very effective "Human Error" that finally made Seven a character one could feel sorry for because certain aspects of humanity were forever beyond her reach.
It's the finale, so who cares about continuity or whether this "romance" would screw up two characters as we knew them? The producers had moved on to a better, edgier ENT that would make VOY look like slop.
Right?
They were struck on a planet together, alone, with no hope of getting off it. Chakotay built her a bathtub, cooked her dinner, and gave her backrubs. Janeway never stopped trying to get off the planet.
I think she made it pretty clear she didn't want anything to do with him romantically.
I think she made it pretty clear she didn't want anything to do with him romantically.
Seven and the Doctor were the obvious choice. They had been developing that one from the beginning. They were at similar stages in their emotional development and the Doctor clearly had romantic feelings for her.
Similarly, Chakotay and Janeway were being developed to be a couple for years but trek doesn't like captains in committed relationships. The episode where the 2 were facing being stranded alone in a planet showed the attraction plainly.
Seven was hot but had the emotional level of a teenager. I don't think the relationship made sense to anyone but I don't think it was Beltran's decision but a production one. Fortunately the books tried to refocus on Chakotay/Janeway but they seemed to have forgotten about Doctor/Seven.
Similarly, Chakotay and Janeway were being developed to be a couple for years but trek doesn't like captains in committed relationships. The episode where the 2 were facing being stranded alone in a planet showed the attraction plainly.
Seven was hot but had the emotional level of a teenager. I don't think the relationship made sense to anyone but I don't think it was Beltran's decision but a production one. Fortunately the books tried to refocus on Chakotay/Janeway but they seemed to have forgotten about Doctor/Seven.
That's true. I didn't think about that one.
The feeling I get through the series is that, for Janeway, the feelings may be there, but she doesn't think she can let herself have them AND be an efficient captain. Whether that's true or not from our perspective is irrelevant, Janeway seems to think this and continues to rebuff Chakotay. I don't think it's that unbelievable that he might give up trying after seven years.
But ending up with Seven? Yeah, that was a bit
Although, a pet theory I enjoy entertaining is that Admiral Janeway, who has obviously changed enough to think it's perfectly alright to try and go back to alter history, could also have changed enough that she may also see going back as an opportunity to rectify the fact that she pushed Chakotay away. After all, she knows herself, and she knows Seven. Who's to say she didn't drop the bombshell (that Chakotay and Seven get married) knowing that they would each react exactly the way they did:
Janeway, when told Seven dies in the arms of her husband, doesn't repeat "Seven" or "dies" but the word "husband" with a look of consternation. If you take into account that the crew seems unable to keep secrets and Janeway is Chakotay's friend, it's not impossible to think that she has at least an inkling that Chakotay and Seven are dating. Thus the repeated word and the dismayed look are a reaction to the fact that she just extrapolated the most likely husband for Seven. Especially if (and this works nicely into the theory that Admiral Janeway is attempting to do this on purpose, since she's also about to send them back to Earth waaaay earlier than she herself got back) there was a part of her that hoped Chakotay would remain available indefinitely so that once they did get home and went their separate ways (career-wise) then she could allow him to pursue her.
As for Seven, if I recall correctly, we don't get any kind of absolute affirmation that she and Chakotay stay together. In fact, it's pretty telling that her reaction is to immediately pull away, even knowing that they're working on changing the timeline and thus taking away the situation in which she dies. Given her issues with attempting to become more human and less borg, I can easily see this being a concept that continues to bother her and, as a result, she continues pulling away from Chakotay, even once they're back on Earth.
Like I said, though, it's just a little pet theory and honestly, it could be tweaked to suit the Janeway/Seven shippers, too.
All in good fun.
But ending up with Seven? Yeah, that was a bit
Although, a pet theory I enjoy entertaining is that Admiral Janeway, who has obviously changed enough to think it's perfectly alright to try and go back to alter history, could also have changed enough that she may also see going back as an opportunity to rectify the fact that she pushed Chakotay away. After all, she knows herself, and she knows Seven. Who's to say she didn't drop the bombshell (that Chakotay and Seven get married) knowing that they would each react exactly the way they did:
Janeway, when told Seven dies in the arms of her husband, doesn't repeat "Seven" or "dies" but the word "husband" with a look of consternation. If you take into account that the crew seems unable to keep secrets and Janeway is Chakotay's friend, it's not impossible to think that she has at least an inkling that Chakotay and Seven are dating. Thus the repeated word and the dismayed look are a reaction to the fact that she just extrapolated the most likely husband for Seven. Especially if (and this works nicely into the theory that Admiral Janeway is attempting to do this on purpose, since she's also about to send them back to Earth waaaay earlier than she herself got back) there was a part of her that hoped Chakotay would remain available indefinitely so that once they did get home and went their separate ways (career-wise) then she could allow him to pursue her.
As for Seven, if I recall correctly, we don't get any kind of absolute affirmation that she and Chakotay stay together. In fact, it's pretty telling that her reaction is to immediately pull away, even knowing that they're working on changing the timeline and thus taking away the situation in which she dies. Given her issues with attempting to become more human and less borg, I can easily see this being a concept that continues to bother her and, as a result, she continues pulling away from Chakotay, even once they're back on Earth.
Like I said, though, it's just a little pet theory and honestly, it could be tweaked to suit the Janeway/Seven shippers, too.
All in good fun.
There is an interview clip on YouTube with Robert Beltran discussing what he told Brannon Braga -- definitely chest-thumping as he proclaimed that since Braga was dating Jeri Ryan, 'I guess that ends Chakotay's chances with her' or something similarly silly.
I'll try to find it later. Of course, even Beltran's proclamations might not mean terribly much. After all, he was an actor, not a producer. But the insinuation from him, at least, is that it happened because he spoke up about Chakotay's underutilized nature and got Seven of Nine's character involved in the shenanigans that time. Then Braga obliged.
Yes, they unequivocally were.
I don't fancy myself the shipping sort. Most romances bore me to tears. But as a youth I watched the very obvious, very intellectually entertaining pseudo-romance of Seven of Nine and The Doctor go through believable and downright intriguing twists and turns only to be deactivated at the last minute.
Hell, correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while) but didn't "Renaissance Man" have The Doctor speaking up candidly about his feelings for Seven when he thought he was going to perish? Wasn't that the penultimate episode? If I'm right (and I hope I'm wrong, but I think I'm right) then that's just ridiculous.
Yeah, it threw me for a spin at 13. I don't exactly look forward to what my reaction will be at 24 since I'm rewatching the series now.
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