Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

[Therin of Andor]

The uniforms of TMP were non-martial, and Roddenberry wanted it that way- Starfleet was about exploration, not conquest. Meyer and company went with military uniforms- playing to base ideas.

Have you seen the "uniforms of the future" that used to be showcased at EPCOT, Disney World, Florida, in the 70s? Based on extensive research and extrapolation, they look intriguingly like the Starfleet uniforms Robert Fletcher ended up with for TMP a few years later.

 

[igrokbok]

Why are the films based on the original series better than the TNG movies? It's all in the source material.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

Why are the films based on the original series better than the TNG movies? It's all in the source material.

No, that's not it at all. If that were true, then the TNG films would have been a gazillion times better than the TOS films.

The TOS films got lucky because they had better writers and directors, and the TNG films got the short end of the stick with poor writers and bad direction (with the exception of Frakes who did a terrific job directing FC).

This inequality should sum things up:

TNG show > TOS films > TNG films > TOS show

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[BillJ]

Some would think it goes like this...

TOS>TNG seasons 1-5>TOS movies>TNG seasons 6-7>Absessed tooth>TNG movies.

 

[siskokid888]

The FC uniforms looked pretty martial.

Yes, the TNG unis were more martial. I think they went away from what Roddenberry wanted, and my point was the TMP unis were not "ridiculous", they tried to show that Starfleet was not a military organization. One of the things I liked about the "Enterprise" series was the utilitarian jumpsuit uni - much closer to Roddenberry's vision.

Um, but Starfleet clearly was at least somewhat military, as they were an organization responsible for defense, and that same movie shows them responding to a threat.

They travel around in ships that are armed to the teeth and fight in wars. Who does that sound like?


But at any rate, from just an aesthetic perspective, I prefer the look of the burgundy uniforms of the later movies, whether they were more militaristic or not.

Starfleet has a defensive military component, but Roddenberry wanted to focus on the exploration aspect. Of course, space battles are more widely seen as entertaining, so that ended up becoming the focus.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

Some would think it goes like this...

TOS>TNG seasons 1-5>TOS movies>TNG seasons 6-7>Absessed tooth>TNG movies.

You are welcome to your opinion, even if I completely disagree.

 

[sonak]

Yes, the TNG unis were more martial. I think they went away from what Roddenberry wanted, and my point was the TMP unis were not "ridiculous", they tried to show that Starfleet was not a military organization. One of the things I liked about the "Enterprise" series was the utilitarian jumpsuit uni - much closer to Roddenberry's vision.

Um, but Starfleet clearly was at least somewhat military, as they were an organization responsible for defense, and that same movie shows them responding to a threat.

They travel around in ships that are armed to the teeth and fight in wars. Who does that sound like?


But at any rate, from just an aesthetic perspective, I prefer the look of the burgundy uniforms of the later movies, whether they were more militaristic or not.

Starfleet has a defensive military component, but Roddenberry wanted to focus on the exploration aspect. Of course, space battles are more widely seen as entertaining, so that ended up becoming the focus.

well except for TVH, which was a good film, a hugely successful one, and one with no space battles. That one always disrupts the "post-TMP films were successful because of kewl explosions" thesis so I love to bring it up.

 

[The Dominion]

Well, TMP itself could be called an effects show.

 

[siskokid888]

​

Um, but Starfleet clearly was at least somewhat military, as they were an organization responsible for defense, and that same movie shows them responding to a threat.

They travel around in ships that are armed to the teeth and fight in wars. Who does that sound like?


But at any rate, from just an aesthetic perspective, I prefer the look of the burgundy uniforms of the later movies, whether they were more militaristic or not.

Starfleet has a defensive military component, but Roddenberry wanted to focus on the exploration aspect. Of course, space battles are more widely seen as entertaining, so that ended up becoming the focus.

well except for TVH, which was a good film, a hugely successful one, and one with no space battles. That one always disrupts the "post-TMP films were successful because of kewl explosions" thesis so I love to bring it up.

ST 4 didn't have explosions, but it wasn't good. Horrendous forced humor (double dumb ass on you - I mean, really?) and the pseudo-relationships evident in the TOS movies - the only honest character moment was between Spock and Sarek at the end of the film. And the Meyer-Bennett lack of respect for Trek storytelling as a whole - "how do we know he didn't invent the thing?" yea- lazy sloppy storytelling with no regard for the rules as was the norm with Trek 2 thru 6.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

ST 4 didn't have explosions, but it wasn't good.

Yet it was extremely successful. Apparently, a lot of people found it good after all. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_IV:_The_Voyage_Home#Critical_response:

The Voyage Home garnered 11 nominations at the 14th annual Saturn Awards, tying Aliens for number of nominations. Nimoy and Shatner were nominated for best actor for their roles,[65] and Catherine Hicks was nominated for best supporting actress. At the 59th Academy Awards, The Voyage Home was nominated for Best Cinematography, Sound (Terry Porter, David J. Hudson, Mel Metcalfe and Gene Cantamessa), Sound Effects Editing, and Music.[66][67]

 

[Anwar]

I liked TMP...

 

[The Dominion]

So do I, but it's still hard to watch.

 

[22 Stars]

ST 4 didn't have explosions, but it wasn't good.

Yet it was extremely successful. Apparently, a lot of people found it good after all. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_IV:_The_Voyage_Home#Critical_response:

The Voyage Home garnered 11 nominations at the 14th annual Saturn Awards, tying Aliens for number of nominations. Nimoy and Shatner were nominated for best actor for their roles,[65] and Catherine Hicks was nominated for best supporting actress. At the 59th Academy Awards, The Voyage Home was nominated for Best Cinematography, Sound (Terry Porter, David J. Hudson, Mel Metcalfe and Gene Cantamessa), Sound Effects Editing, and Music.[66][67]

This. People like Trek for various reasons, and everyone is entitled to their own, but the public spoke loud and clear with TVH.

 

[Therin of Andor]

... but it's still hard to watch.

No it's not. Just relax and listen to the pretty music.

Still my favourite movie of all time (not just ST), now in a tie with JJ's ST.

 

[Kai Winn]

I don't think the TOS movies were better than the TNG movies, on the contrary. Every movie in the group VI - X was better than anything in I to V, and the worst of the pack is TWOK. Nemesis had at least a fine space battle, while the FX in TWOK are the stuff of nightmares.
In hindsight, the standard for SF on the big screen was maybe set by Alien in 1979. TMP was a greater box office hit in the same year, and since that was a lulling kind of movie, it's success can only be explained by the faithful fans of Star Trek. Paramount obviously believed the fans will take anything, and produced the string of poor movies which II - V are for the better part. I actually liked every one of them when they were new, but everything has moved on for 30 years.

 

[The Dominion]

... but it's still hard to watch.

No it's not. Just relax and listen to the pretty music.

Still my favourite movie of all time (not just ST), now in a tie with JJ's ST.

Yes it is, I watched it with my grandma and she actually asked if there was something wrong with the TV during one of the scenes of the Enterprise moving through space.

 

[22 Stars]

... but it's still hard to watch.

No it's not. Just relax and listen to the pretty music.

Still my favourite movie of all time (not just ST), now in a tie with JJ's ST.

I agree, the music makes the movie (and makes up for all its faults)! As I think the the music really helps JJ Trek. I even used the cue 'Labor of Love' for my processional at my wedding two years ago

 

[sonak]

... but it's still hard to watch.

No it's not. Just relax and listen to the pretty music.

Still my favourite movie of all time (not just ST), now in a tie with JJ's ST.

what a random combination of favorites, as they're almost total opposites.

"my two favorite movies are "Wizard of OZ" And "Saw"--it's just so hard to choose between them!"



(sarcasm: I hate pornographic violence movies like "Saw," it was used for the sake of absurdism)

 

[22 Stars]

People choose favorite films not just because of their face value content, but also because of what they represent to them emotionally. I can totally understand the two Therin chooses. They both represent a rebirth of Trek in the mainstream with artistic flair and grandeur.

 

[sonak]

People choose favorite films not just because of their face value content, but also because of what they represent to them emotionally. I can totally understand the two Therin chooses. They both represent a rebirth of Trek in the mainstream with artistic flair and grandeur.

yeah, I guess it could be looked at that way. Though I think that TWOK is a better choice if that's the reasoning, because though TMP was a box office hit, it was a critical flop and a huge disappointment, fan-wise. Had there been another movie or two like TMP, the movie series would have been in trouble.


And don't get me wrong, obviously fans can choose whatever are their subjective choices they want. It's just that it's a very dissimilar pair of movies put together.