Why all the focus on B4 for Picard series? What about using Lore?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by ConRefit79, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. KennyB

    KennyB Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    It's a hologram..........B4 in a drawer........there is no Lore. Say no more.
     
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  2. Push The Button

    Push The Button Commodore Commodore

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    Sounds like every Windows PC that I’ve ever owned.
     
  3. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    IIRC, they covered this in “The Measure if a Man”...studying Data’s brain required a procedure that involved dismantling him and storing his memories in a way that didn’t guarantee he’d still be the same being when they were put back.
     
  4. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe everyone is afraid Data will turn evil if they put him in Lore's body. It's not like Lore didn't turn him evil before:lol:

    Imagine if there are two Borg factions. One devoted to Data and the other to Lore.
     
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Data does Edger Allan Poe.
     
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  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Stills? There's video of him at the very end of the Picard trailer!

    Countdown is already contradicted by what we know of Picard. In Countdown, Data became captain of the Enterprise and Picard became Ambassador to Vulcan. The Picard trailer and Picard exhibit at SDCC implies Data's been dead since Nemesis and Picard became an Admiral, led a historic rescue mission and then retired to his vineyard.
     
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  7. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It isn’t.

    Also have you not watched the trailer?
     
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  8. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    The trailer I originally saw did not have the end part with Data. But I just saw that. And Countdown is contradicted. So we don't know for certain how Data shows up. Could be just a hologram or a hallucination. And considering Picard's "I don't want the game to end" line, it may be one of those.
     
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  9. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And in Trek, a program is a dynamic entity that in the general case cannot be copied at all. Trying to do so would "kill" it, as we learn with many a holographic program.

    That's more or less the point, though. Soong wanted nothing to do with the scientific community, because he had been laughed out of that. So he isolated himself for perfecting a project that would astound everybody - and then apparently fairly quickly achieved the positronic breakthrough (thus establishing that this was indeed his "personal field of science" he had already developed to near-perfection without telling anybody, or else he would not have been originally laughed at).

    Only, he never felt he had reached perfection: even Data was a failure he never got around to publishing... And remarkably, for a couple of extra decades, nobody even suspected Data might be positronic (thus suggesting nothing at all was known about positronics, such as "they glow like beacons across interstellar ranges"!).

    But Soong's failure to publish anything, like, ever, is not the most important factor in the fate of positronics. That honor befalls on the fact that androids are uninteresting per se. Data was dumped on Starfleet, which found no real use for the tinkertoy for those decades. And no wonder, when the competing/ruling expert in the field, Graves, more or less dismissed androids as a category, and an apparent folly of Soong's specifically.

    Why study positronics if they only trump other techniques in the useless field of androidry and nowhere else? (Admittedly, they did find another use relating to being crammed inside a humanoid skull - as brain prosthetics in "Life Support" - but this again might suggest that skulls are the only worthwhile application, and there just isn't that much demand for in-skull tech or for fake skulls. Holograms do all that much better, without any confining physical skulls.)

    That said, I'm sure Picard is either remembering a conversation with Data, or dreaming of one, or then having a holoprogram written to match the memory or dream. No actual positronics involved.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  10. captain crow

    captain crow Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Where was Lore's body stored after the last encounter with him? Enterprise-D or a Starfleet warehouse? Because if it was the Enterprise-D it was most likely destroyed Generations when the warp core breached.
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's a big question about how honest our heroes are with their superiors. Picard is entitled to keeping and subsequently wrecking his super-hyper-rare-and-expensive Kurlan naiskos, as even in the socialist'ish UFP setup, that's his personal property. Lore really, really shouldn't be.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always thought that Lore went to that Maddox fellow to study, since he was denied full access to Data.
    I would imagine that the majority of Lore's parts are scattered across several Star Fleet Scientific Installations and he'll never be allowed to be completely assembled again.

    Maddox probably striped Lore's head down to it's basic structures, while still being able to keep it somewhat functional for study.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  13. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe his body went to Data as next of kin.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The thing is, dismantling isn't much of an event in the life of a Soongian android. It's not comparable to, say, death penalty, or even a particularly severe jail penalty. More like a nap of cheerfully surprising length.

    Being further torn apart by Maddox supposedly is, though. Otherwise Data wouldn't have turned down his request...

    Supposedly, UFP law doesn't believe much in punishment. Would Lore get one?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, being deactivated is more like a dreamless sleep than death since they can be easily reactivated.
     
  16. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    I still think Lore is in the Drawer
     
  17. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Commodore Commodore

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    I think the Elf is on the Shelf.
     
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  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Might well be Data in that Drawer, for appropriately alliterative satisfaction. I mean, the thalaron dust did no harm to things like tables, clothes or tabletop gadgets at the Senate Hall. Data is a gadget; his body ought to have survived the kaboom just fine.

    Assuming it was a thalaron kaboom, that is. But a thalaron kaboom apparently was the very thing he tried to avoid by phasering the thalaron doodad, because supposedly the release of thalaron forces would kill the rest of the hero folks even inside their airtight starship somehow - so are we to assume the kaboom was more conventional and conventionally ripped Data to pieces smaller than the ones we see?

    Or would the thalaron have harmed the E-E crew only if deployed by that fancy fan-shaped delivery device unfolding from the Scimitar? That scenario would allow for Data to just harmlessly burst the thalaron dust out of its container and neutralize the weapon, to no great loss. Which does make one wonder. He has weathered whole-body amputation just fine previously. Lore did fine after getting beamed through shields into space, to float for years. So,what did kill Data?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Yar is in the Tar
     
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  20. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    I wish I could like this more than once! :devil::techman: