Who would you have killed off?

[QuasarVM]

If one ENT character had to die in series finale, and you had to choose which one, who would it be and why?

Either Archer or Porthos.

They were both annoying.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Crimony. Wait long enough, and every thread in here will turn into a shipper fight or a TATV bashfest. Or both.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. It has been my experience that, more often than not, a fan's dislike for Tucker was directly tied into that person's "ship". I don't think those fans would admit it right away, but as you get into longer conversations, you usually find that it does come up. But, as I said, it doesn't apply to everyone.

Exactly. It doesn't apply to everyone. To declare as a foregone conclusion that people who like TATV are automatically Trip-dislikers and/or Archer/T'Pol shippers IS NOT TRUE.

Let's look at it from another perspective. If someone were to declare that people who don't like TATV hold this view because they are Trip fans who got shafted, and/or T/T shippers, that would be just as inaccurate. I find it presumptuous for anyone to tell me why I dislike TATV. The problems I have with that episode are about story structure and continuity, not with whatever characters or relationships I like or don't like.

Actually, I have ventured into some Archer/T-Pol Fanfic sites...

Of course there is A/T'P fanfic by Trip haters. News flash: there are also A/T'P stories by people who don't hate Trip. I've written two of them. Of course there are avatars that are pro A/T'P and anti-Trip. But guess what--there are also plenty that make fun of A/T'P, and Archer. You believe Archer is treated courteously at T/TP fanfic sites? Then you haven't seen the sites I've gone to. Archer-bashing is a favorite pasttime of some T/T shippers, and Archer has been written as a fool in plenty of T/T fics.

SFW? They're expressing themselves. Just as you are doing.

also, please don't slap me down for this post.

Are you kidding me? If you don't want to be slapped down, Penguin, then don't make posts like that.

ENOUGH. No more petty bitching about which faction hates which character, or loves what episode, and how terrible and evil and morally bankrupt whoever is for daring to have a point of view that is different from yours.

This is fandom. There are many passionate fans here who love or hate, passionately, and will never be convinced to consider any other position. For every opinion you hold dear, there will be someone who disagrees with you, passionately.

DEAL WITH IT. You all have the right to your own individual, subjective opinions, but no opinion, or holder of that opinion, is "better" or "worse" than any other. If you can't take the high road and be more accepting of differing opinions, or resist the urge to turn every discussion into a competition or a brawl, or be personally offended by perspectives that don't meet your approval... then use the Ignore function. Or pour all of your vitriol into a post and then delete it before posting. Or just take a break from here. Go out and smell some roses and listen to birds singing and hug your dog or your kid, and chill out.

The forum is here for the enjoyment of everyone. The idea is for it to be stimulating, fun, friendly. When it gets taken over by name-calling and one-upmanship and fights and debates about the goodness or badness of personal opinion, this place is a drag. IDIC, people. Okay?

Now relax and go back to killing characters off.

 

[EVL_Ripper]

I'd prefer none die but if any then Travis. Don't hate him or anything, he just really wouldn't be missed.

 

[Praetor]

Poor Travis can't catch a break.

 

[SFRabid]

Phlox needs a vote so he does not feel left out.

 

[JiNX-01]

Margaret Clark, the editor of the Enterprise novels, decided even before she learned of the fan backlash over TATV that she wanted to "unkill Trip." TGTMD does in fact feature Trip for that express reason. She even got the Paramount suits to OK contradicting what occurred on screen (which I read somewhere was a longtime "no no" for the ST novelists).

I would like to give you my opinion why Margaret Clark "unkilled" Trip and reinterpreted canon. Enterprise books would not sell any significant volumes without either Charles Tucker or, to a lesser extent, his romance with T'Pol. It all comes down to what appeals to the buyers most and to the money it generates, which is what Star Trek is really all about. As we will learn tomorrow, canon is secondary to cash. (not that I have a problem with that).

My post reflects remarks by Clark at Shore Leave 2006 where she talked about how the book came to be written.

 

[Skywalker]

Phlox needs a vote so he does not feel left out.

Sometimes I think Phlox is the only character from ENT who's close to being universally liked.

 

[Middleman]

Let's look at it from another perspective. If someone were to declare that people who don't like TATV hold this view because they are Trip fans who got shafted, and/or T/T shippers, that would be just as inaccurate. I find it presumptuous for anyone to tell me why I dislike TATV. The problems I have with that episode are about story structure and continuity, not with whatever characters or relationships I like or don't like.

There are only two episodes I've watched only once and TATV is one of them. I'll be "up-front" on this one: My top two reasons for hating TATV with a passion are exactly the two points you mentioned.

1. They killed my favorite character in the stupidest nonsensical way anyone could have possibly imagined. I subscribe to the middle finger theory on why they did it this way. Frankly, even if they wrote it well and Trip died a real hero's death, I still would have been pissed off.
2. After 2 seasons of "developing" a relationship between Tucker & T'Pol; after taking us to where we got to in Terra Prime ... puff, it's gone. Then they give us that wonderful "I going miss you" scene. Oh please, give me a break. Middle finger theory again. I admit to being a Trip & T'Pol shipper and I will admit that it defines a good portion of my views on the series, especially this episode.

After those two points, I found fault with almost everything else about TATV. Bad writing, no Archer speech, the TNG holodeck concept, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I really have no problems with being defined as a TnT fan. I'm open, honest and up front about it. However, my being a fan of the TnT relationship has not caused me to "hate" any of the other characters or would want to see them dead. I'm a fan of all of them. Also, as I said earlier, I'm a "Happy Endings" kind of guy and there was no need for anyone to die in TATV.

Crimony. Wait long enough, and every thread in here will turn into a shipper fight or a TATV bashfest. Or both.

When people are passionate about a subject, especially a subject that is such an integral part of the series, it's really difficult to put a cork in it.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

When people are passionate about a subject, especially a subject that is such an integral part of the series, it's really difficult to put a cork in it.

But not impossible.

There is a proper place for everything. For example: This thread is "Who would you have killed off?" It is not "Why I loathe TATV," or "Why I love Trip and T'Pol."

For your convenience, we have the [thread=67533]TnT shipper thread[/thread] for you to wax rhapsodic about Trip and T'Pol to your heart's content.

Regarding TATV, there is usually a thread going about that (I'm not counting the numerous threads on other topics that have devolved into TATV rant-o-ramas). If by some astounding turn of events you find that the latest TATV hate thread has fallen by the wayside, you are welcome to start your very own, and post away. You can turn it into a screeching, spitting, energy-sucking black hole of seething rancor, as you wish. At least you will be on topic.

But if someone weighs in with a differing opinion, you will of course behave in a civil and respectful manner.


Now let's get back to the character-killing, please. Any further comments about different topics should be posted in the proper threads, or taken to PM. Thank you.

 

[AntiArcherTPol]

Archer. Far and away, Archer.

For me, honestly, it would have redeemed him somewhat, something the show never did.

Actually, I would have had him die saving a miscellaneous Vulcan child, to finally put to bed all of the nonsensical, racist ramblings that Archer spouted over the years.

 

[Mach5]

And from what I've seen on forums (this one and some others), people who actually liked TATV, only did because they disliked Trip and his popularity, and were glad his fans got middle-fingered.

Mach5, So true. I would say that most who liked TATV are what are sometimes termed as A/T-Pol's. Trip stood inthe way of an Archer/T-Pol romance. so they were happy to see him offed.

Conclusions such as these are neither accurate or fair. I have seen plenty of posts by people who like TATV, and it has nothing to do with shipping or a perceived dislike of Trip.

And who are you to decide whats accurate and fair? I can't speak for Penguin, but I never even mentioned 'shipping,' and I said: "from what I've seen," which means "It is not necessarily so!"

And I really haven't seen many cases of "TATV-loving" anywhere (for example, zero cases on Croatian forums, and there are plenty ENT fans and Trekkies in general where I'm at), but I guess that there are people who for some (elusive) reason actually liked it. Heck, one of my buddies even liked (no, loved) "Battlefield Earth," and I still hang with him.

This type of wholesale negative branding of certain factions of viewers, simply because their views don't line up with yours, is not a good idea. Let's not go there anymore.

Yes mam

 

[commodore64]

Poor Travis can't catch a break.

Maybe he needs bumper stickers. I brake for uhm, that guy who was at the helm.

I do think his death in Twilight was well done. You get a sense that things are dire from his death.

 

[Praetor]

^That's true.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

And who are you to decide whats accurate and fair?

I am a moderator, advising you to obey the rules of this board:

It's fine to say a certain aspect of Star Trek is bad, as long as you don't insult the people who think otherwise, and as long as you actually back up what you say.

Trolling is an internet term that means you're not posting to actually start or participate in a good discussion, but simply to anger another member or group of members. Posting in order to bait other users, moderators or administrators will not be tolerated.

And I really haven't seen many cases of "TATV-loving" anywhere (for example, zero cases on Croatian forums, and there are plenty ENT fans and Trekkies in general where I'm at), but I guess that there are people who for some (elusive) reason actually liked it.

I will caution you one more time: stop passing judgment on other groups of people.

Any further comments to PM.

 

[cooleddie74]

Sadly, poor Travis was the most expendable. But then that never changed in almost 100 episodes across four years.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Mayweather - what did he actually *do*, again? I mean, I know his job description is helmsman, but... The guy was a total waste of space.

Though I have to say I wouldn't have waited for the finale - mid-season 1 would have been ideal...

 

[J Archer]

I suppose Archer would make the most sense, dieing in some heroic gesture as others have suggested.

 

[ohthehumanity]

Archer. Definitely Archer. As important as they liked to pretend he was through the whole show, killing him off would have at least given some weight to it. They could have given him a "hero's" death, and that could have explained away any of the crazy nonsense that Daniels and Future Guy used to claim, about Archer being "great."

 

[Praetor]

I think, also, since the arc of the show paralleled to Archer's growth as a person, it makes dramatic sense.

 

[commodore64]

^ Join the Hero's Journey thread, Praetor. It discusses that exactly.