Who was the better security chief? Tuvok or Worf?
- Thread starter Ness
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I have to say Tuvok, mainly because I don't think the writers ever really figured out what to do with a security chief during TNG. He's certainly a great choice for the law enforcement aspect of it, but it wasn't until Odo that they really fleshed out the chief of security as being a capable detective, and then that carried over somewhat into Voyager with Tuvok. I can't think of a single instance of Worf actually investigating a crime in TNG, though I'd be happy to hear someone point out one that I'm missing, or perhaps that aspect has been explored in novels and if so I'd love examples.
In Mind's Eye, after the Enterprise is caught beaming down supplies to rebels, Worf is with some of the officers saying something like, "procedure requires me to ask each of you...."
The funny thing is they end up giving the whole investigation to Data.
Tasha Yar did the same thing in one episode. I liked Tasha Yar's run as security chief, because she portrayed the role in a believeable way, and going with a female was a nice change of pace.
Tuvok is cool, because he gives you the impression he knows 13 types of martial arts, ways to incapacitate someone etc. All with that logical coolness.
Odo is tops in investigation. Tuvok, second, IMO.
But Worf pretty much set the standard, (with the exception of Tasha) because he was the first one we were really exposed to.
Not sure if serious...
Spock was a teenage boy throwing a Klingon man that looked twice his weight in the air like he was a rag doll. You're telling me you can easily do this feat?
The element of surprise is irrelevant. That's like saying I can go up to a professional wrestler in the dark who weighs as twice as I do, get behind him, and toss him around like I'm Superman. Yet by the logic you are trying to push, that in no way means I'm physically stronger...even though the demonstration completely proves otherwise.
The context of "why" is not important to the main agenda that was being discussed. It was more so "what". The variable being discussed was strength amongst a species, not behavioral patterns which have no effect on the said strength, making it irrelevant. I never cared why Spock threw the Klingon, only that what he did proved the superior Vulcan strength among most humanoid species seen throughout the franchise.
There is no evidence to support this. On the other hand there is evidence seen throughout Star Trek to support that Vulcans are stronger than most humanoid species, so a teenage Spock tossing around a grown Klingon man that looked twice his weight isn't farfetched.
Well we aren't going to debate things about the Genesis project that were never elaborated about. If there was evidence to support the notion that the Genesis project improved Vulcan strength, then you'd have a point, but there is no evidence. It's mere speculation...and there is no basis for a conclusion regarding even that.
Whatever. Fact of the matter is an elderly Picard got jumped and was able to subdue a couple of Klingons. If it were a couple of crazy Vulcans, I doubt Picard survives.
Or they are just overrated.
Nope, but then I don't have superior strength to an average human. I'm saying I can surprise and toss someone of similar size and weight to myself, maybe a little bigger. An average Vulcan who we know is stronger than a human could lift and toss an adult Klingon. It just doesn't automatically make him stronger than or even as strong the Klingon.
To use your example of a professional wrestler, setting aside that it's scripted, smaller wrestlers are capable and often suplex or otherwise toss other wrestlers that are physically stronger and outweigh them by 100lbs or more. I can cite examples if you wish, but for now I'll just mention guys like Bryan Danielson, Chris Jericho, and Shawn Michaels.
Hell, just as relevant- I've seen Batman judo throw Superman across a room and suplex Killer Croc on seperate occasions. It doesn't make Batman stronger than either of them.
Nothing in this example you've given is evidence that a Vulcan would have to be stronger than a Klingon in order to toss him (which, if you recall was your original summation and the main point I disagreed with you on). Seems to me he'd just have to be able to get an advantage somehow (like surprise) and be suffiently strong to able to lift the Klingon's weight and toss him.
Again, Picard was *just* able to subdue ONE Klingon, the other would have killed him, but was killed by Kahlest.
Also, I may be splitting hairs here, but being in your early 60s in the 24th century is hardly "elderly". It's barely considered elderly even in this day and age. Being elderly is a stage that descibes a general decline of health due to age and the onset of mental issues which in time make it impossible for a person to care for themselves. For some this can take place as early as the early 60s or as late as 100s even in the 20th century. Picard was keeping healthy and active well into his 80s if the novels are to be believed.
And when you say 'crazy Vulcan', I can't help but think that Romulans are only seperated from Vulcans by roughly 2,000 years living in a different ecosystem. Seems to me that its not enough time for new genetic traits to be gained or old ones to be lost, so Romulans should at least be a bit stronger than Humans, yet physically weaker than Vulcans. Yet, we never see them display any impressive feats of strength.
I wonder how Picard would fare against two Romulans? He single-handedly killed an entire bridge full of Remans if that's any indication. "Elderly" indeed.
That's your opinion, and probably the underlying reason of why you'd choose Tuvok over Worf in the first place.
I go with tuvok,look at where they were,in a unexplored part of the galaxy naming the delta quadrant and all it new and dangerous aliens etc,etc.
For TNG, the requirements for Security Chief seemed to only be (delete as appropriate):
Can he/she pick up a phaser? YES NO
Can he/she fire a phaser? YES NO
Can he/she get into elaborate hand-to-hand fights? YES NO
Does he/she look good dressed in gold? YES NO
It was in DS9 that the Security Chief go to do investigations and keeping the peace. Which then continued into VOY, with training crew added to the mix as well.
Can he/she pick up a phaser? YES NO
Can he/she fire a phaser? YES NO
Can he/she get into elaborate hand-to-hand fights? YES NO
Does he/she look good dressed in gold? YES NO
It was in DS9 that the Security Chief go to do investigations and keeping the peace. Which then continued into VOY, with training crew added to the mix as well.
I hate Voyager and I love Worf but Tuvok was clearly the more intelligent of the two men and he was the stronger investigator, beyond that he did quite well protecting his crew from the Borg and all the other creepy crawlies of the DQ. Worf was far better when he was working as a liaison between the KDF and the Federation.
Tuvok, because he seemed better organized and much better at formulating a plan. But Odo puts both of them to shame.
See, you guys who are blindly voting Tuvok are overthinking it, and that's not a crime I usually attribute to Voyager fans. 
Let me explain and I'll try not to use words that are to cumbersome: See, it's generally accepted than in every measurable sense TNG is far superior to VOY, ergo: Worf is superior to Tuvok.
Let me explain and I'll try not to use words that are to cumbersome: See, it's generally accepted than in every measurable sense TNG is far superior to VOY, ergo: Worf is superior to Tuvok.
Which has what to do with being the head of security?
See, you guys who are blindly voting Tuvok are overthinking it, and that's not a crime I usually attribute to Voyager fans.
Let me explain and I'll try not to use words that are to cumbersome: See, it's generally accepted than in every measurable sense TNG is far superior to VOY, ergo: Worf is superior to Tuvok.
I'm the farthest thing from a Voyager fan, but I'd feel more secure with Mr. Vulcan than Mr. PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED any day. Besides, everyone knows Worf was better on DS9, but he wasn't a security chief there.
That said, I'd much rather hang out and go into a combat situation with Worf.
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