Who was the better security chief? Tuvok or Worf?

[Bry_Sinclair]

Due to Vulcans higher gravity, its people were on average three times stronger than humans and fast too (according to Take Me Out To The Holosuite). It's never been stated if Klingons are actually stronger than humans and if so then by how much.

I'd be willing to bet that in a straight hand-to-hand fight between a representative of each, the Vulcan would win. Not just because of the physical strength, but (to me at least) Klingons are all for the show and spectacle, a Vulcan would be looking to drop their opponent in the fastest and easiest manner possible.

But that's my thoughts.

 

[RoJoHen]

Technically Tuvok should be stronger due to being a Vulcan correct?

Stronger than a Klingon? I doubt it.

My read is that not only aren't Klingons stronger than Humans, on average they appear to be slighty weaker.

Hard to imagine a Human dropping to the floor just because a pregnant woman kicked him once in the tummy. A Klingon did drop, while wearing body armor at the time.

klingons talk some good smack, but they can't walk.

Maybe Klingons just have bad balance.

Human: "Fight me, Klingon!"
Klingon: "I cannot fight today! I have a weird inner ear thing."

 

[Ness]

Technically Tuvok should be stronger due to being a Vulcan correct?

Stronger than a Klingon? I doubt it.

Vulcans have three times the strength of a human. And in Star Trek III a teenage Spock tossed a Klingon man around like he was a rag doll.

The only time we've seen a Klingon have a chance against a Vulcan was B'Lanna against Vorik. Meanwhile, we've seen a lot of times where a human has fought off a Klingon. Not so much a Vulcan.

 

[Ness]

As for the security chief in the original series, it was definitely unclear and there and I remember at least two different chiefs when it was brought up. When The Motion Picture started, Chekov seemed to be head of security.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Technically Tuvok should be stronger due to being a Vulcan correct?

Stronger than a Klingon? I doubt it.

Vulcans have three times the strength of a human. And in Star Trek III a teenage Spock tossed a Klingon man around like he was a rag doll.

Course, that doesn't mean that the Vulcan in question was any stronger than the Klingon. Based on the facts we know of this instance are that the Vulcan in question was linked to the unstable planet they happened to be on and in the midst of the Pon Farr maddness and the Klingon in question (badly) underestimated the "Vulcan child".

It does not however, speak to any hypothetical superior Vulcan strength.

 

[kirsten187]

From the choices available, I'd go for Tuvok but my favourite Star Trek security chief is Odo.

 

[Ness]

Stronger than a Klingon? I doubt it.

Vulcans have three times the strength of a human. And in Star Trek III a teenage Spock tossed a Klingon man around like he was a rag doll.

Course, that doesn't mean that the Vulcan in question was any stronger than the Klingon. Based on the facts we know of this instance are that the Vulcan in question was linked to the unstable planet they happened to be on and in the midst of the Pon Farr maddness and the Klingon in question (badly) underestimated the "Vulcan child".

It does not however, speak to any hypothetical superior Vulcan strength.

There is no indication that the Pon Farr increases a Vulcan's strength. Regardless, Spock was a teenage boy that threw someone that looked like he was twice his weight, and it seemed like he was throwing a rag doll. Being on Genesis and going through the Pon Farr has nothing to do with it. That isn't going to make a Vulcan stronger or weaker. It will change their emotional state, but it won't increase their strength. There isn't any evidence to support that.

Like I said earlier, we've seen numerous times that a human can subdue a Klingon, but we've rarely seen a human defeat a Vulcan one on one.

 

[Neutral Zone]

Tuvok is mentaily and in the long run much fitter with the added bonus of controlled emotions makes him the better security officer.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

In the same instance of Trek 3 with the Vulcan throwing a Klingon (being lifted and thrown doesn't make one weak, just makes one light to the thrower), we saw Kruge lift Kirk up with one arm? Maybe I'm misremember that.
But I know Worf did that at least twice in DS9 (in "The Sword of Kahless" and "Let he is without Sin") and I don't think many humans can do that with as much ease.

With that aside, when it comes to security, if I beam to a planet that has some potential danger, I'd much rather a Klingon had my back than a Vulcan.

 

[Skywalker]

Can't we compromise? Make Tuvok the Tactical Officer and put Worf in charge of Security.

I never liked having those two departments combined anyway.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Vulcans have three times the strength of a human. And in Star Trek III a teenage Spock tossed a Klingon man around like he was a rag doll.

Course, that doesn't mean that the Vulcan in question was any stronger than the Klingon. Based on the facts we know of this instance are that the Vulcan in question was linked to the unstable planet they happened to be on and in the midst of the Pon Farr maddness and the Klingon in question (badly) underestimated the "Vulcan child".

It does not however, speak to any hypothetical superior Vulcan strength.

There is no indication that the Pon Farr increases a Vulcan's strength. Regardless, Spock was a teenage boy that threw someone that looked like he was twice his weight, and it seemed like he was throwing a rag doll. Being on Genesis and going through the Pon Farr has nothing to do with it. That isn't going to make a Vulcan stronger or weaker. It will change their emotional state, but it won't increase their strength. There isn't any evidence to support that.

Like I said earlier, we've seen numerous times that a human can subdue a Klingon, but we've rarely seen a human defeat a Vulcan one on one.

I never said that Pon Farr would have any effect on a Vulcan's strength one way or the other. It however makes a normally logical Vulcan quite unpredictable to your average Klingon. Pon Farr had a great deal to do with a teenage Vulcan with already impressive strength throwing the Klingon twice his size.

Being linked to the Genesis Planet at least added an unknown element to the equation.

The Klingon simply wasn't expecting such a reaction from the Vulcan.

 

[Ness]

Course, that doesn't mean that the Vulcan in question was any stronger than the Klingon. Based on the facts we know of this instance are that the Vulcan in question was linked to the unstable planet they happened to be on and in the midst of the Pon Farr maddness and the Klingon in question (badly) underestimated the "Vulcan child".

It does not however, speak to any hypothetical superior Vulcan strength.

There is no indication that the Pon Farr increases a Vulcan's strength. Regardless, Spock was a teenage boy that threw someone that looked like he was twice his weight, and it seemed like he was throwing a rag doll. Being on Genesis and going through the Pon Farr has nothing to do with it. That isn't going to make a Vulcan stronger or weaker. It will change their emotional state, but it won't increase their strength. There isn't any evidence to support that.

Like I said earlier, we've seen numerous times that a human can subdue a Klingon, but we've rarely seen a human defeat a Vulcan one on one.

I never said that Pon Farr would have any effect on a Vulcan's strength one way or the other. It however makes a normally logical Vulcan quite unpredictable to your average Klingon. Pon Farr had a great deal to do with a teenage Vulcan with already impressive strength throwing the Klingon twice his size.

Being linked to the Genesis Planet at least added an unknown element to the equation.

The Klingon simply wasn't expecting such a reaction from the Vulcan.

So you're saying that it doesn't have any effect on a Vulcan's strength, but it does? You're not making any sense. Either it does, or it doesn't. And it clearly doesn't. There is zero evidence to support this. Having Spock being emotionally distraught won't do anything to his strength. Pon Farr is irrelevant in this discussion. If you are saying he got the jump on the Klingon, that doesn't matter. Spock's strength would still be the same.

And I don't know why you brought up Genesis. There wasn't anything "unknown" about what was going on. Everything on the planet was evolving at an accelerated rate, and then the planet destroyed itself because the project was a failure. Spock grew up quicker than an average Vulcan. Nothing more.

And all the other examples from the series we've seen, denotes that Klingons aren't even that much stronger than humans...if they even are. They act tough and whatever, but that doesn't mean they are stronger. We know Vulcans are stronger than humans as every time a human tries to subdue one, it usually fails. Klingons? Not so much. Picard took out three of them on his own when he was being mugged.

 

[GSnail]

And even if the strengths were equal, I'd rather have a threat quickly neck pinched than have a big giant fight going on in the halls. So, Tuvok.
Plus, I just like Tuvok.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Can't we compromise? Make Tuvok the Tactical Officer and put Worf in charge of Security.

I never liked having those two departments combined anyway.

I've often thought that as well. It makes no sense to have your most qualified tactician your head of security, as what if they are both needed in totally different locations, then you're kinda screwed.

 

[Amaris]

That's a tough one. I mean, Worf is honorable, strong, loyal, and ethical to a fault. He's also pretty good with a phaser. Tuvok is highly intelligent, deft, logical, and also ethical to a fault. He, too, is pretty good with a phaser. Still, between the two, I'd have to pick Worf, but it's by a slim margin. I mean, Tuvok was effective, but so was Worf, and Worf was in charge of a massive Galaxy class vessel with dignitaries, ambassadors, other Starfleet personnel, and civilians coming and going quite often, whereas Tuvok oversaw a much smaller, more isolated vessel.

So, for me, it's Worf.

 

[T'Girl]

Unless someone came right out and said it, would you know that Worf was the chief of security? Tuvok is shown to be a talented investigator, a people manager, training personnel, and the Captain obviously respects his advise.

Certainly during TNG I can't remember Work doing things that make him a chief, I mean he's there with a phaser, fires the ship's phasers, and reads off sensor readings. But any security guard could do these things. Picard is shown to not particularly respect his opinions, I can't remember Worf investigating very much, and other than saying "You go down that corridor," he doesn't display any leadership of the actual overall security department.

His "managerial skills" as a chief are missing.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Unless someone came right out and said it, would you know that Worf was the chief of security? Tuvok is shown to be a talented investigator, a people manager, training personnel, and the Captain obviously respects his advise.

Certainly during TNG I can't remember Work doing things that make him a chief, I mean he's there with a phaser, fires the ship's phasers, and reads off sensor readings. But any security guard could do these things. Picard is shown to not particularly respect his opinions, I can't remember Worf investigating very much, and other than saying "You go down that corridor," he doesn't display any leadership of the actual overall security department.

His "managerial skills" as a chief are missing.

So who do you think was the Enterprise's chief of security then?

Otherwise, it seemed like Picard respected Worf's opinion as much as anyone else's and even was honored to serve as his cha'dich. When Worf briefly resigned from Starfleet to join the Klingon navy, Picard gave him a departure befitting a highly valued crewmember.

 

[Amaris]

Not only that, but on many occasions we saw Worf organizing rotation schedules, running practice drills, disciplining a crewman, and doing what a department head does.

 

[Skywalker]

Not to mention that the Enterprise computer identified Worf as "Security Chief" in the episode "Conundrum."

 

[Satyrquaze]

So you're saying that it doesn't have any effect on a Vulcan's strength, but it does? You're not making any sense. Either it does, or it doesn't. And it clearly doesn't. There is zero evidence to support this. Having Spock being emotionally distraught won't do anything to his strength. Pon Farr is irrelevant in this discussion. If you are saying he got the jump on the Klingon, that doesn't matter. Spock's strength would still be the same.

And I don't know why you brought up Genesis. There wasn't anything "unknown" about what was going on. Everything on the planet was evolving at an accelerated rate, and then the planet destroyed itself because the project was a failure. Spock grew up quicker than an average Vulcan. Nothing more.

And all the other examples from the series we've seen, denotes that Klingons aren't even that much stronger than humans...if they even are. They act tough and whatever, but that doesn't mean they are stronger. We know Vulcans are stronger than humans as every time a human tries to subdue one, it usually fails. Klingons? Not so much. Picard took out three of them on his own when he was being mugged.

No, I'm saying that 'Person A' throwing 'Person B' across several yards doesn't nessicarilly mean that Person A is stronger than Person B as you implied in your OP. I am fully capable of tossing opponents who are physically stronger than I am.

I'm saying that the fact that Person A was acting unpredictably and violently surprised Person B because he wasn't expecting a violent response from a species virtually unknown for violent responses.

Saying Spock was 'emotionally distraught' doesn't cover a what is medically described as a form of madness. Pon Farr as very relevant to your post as it is a large part of the reason of not only how, but why Spock threw the Klingon across the camp. Would he have thrown the Klingon had he not been under the effects of Pon Farr? Probably not. Was he prone to throwing his opponents? Not in the least. That alone makes it relevant to your discussion.

The Klingon getting tossed has more to do with him getting surprised by a violent reaction from a Vulcan than it does the possiblity that Vulcans are stronger than Klingons.

If you want to turn a blind eye what other effects the Planet might of had on Spock's physiology, then fine.

I assume you're talking about "Sins of the Father" where Picard was able to overcome one Klingon and Kahlest saved him from the other with a thrown knife. There was no third Klingon assassin.

The main reason that Klingons get such a poor showing physically more often than not, is because if they didn't they'd kill the starring characters.