Who should become the next Doctor after Whittaker?

[The Wormhole]

It really, really helps when you are running down a corridor.

Benedict Wong is fit enough to do action scenes in MCU movies, he's fit enough to run down a corridor while being chased by a Dalek.

I’d also throw in the role model thing again, where we go for healthy eating as a big thing these days,

On the other hand, given how much importance media places on looks, and the impression one can get from TV or movies that looking anything less than supermodel perfect is unacceptable, a more natural and ordinary looking role model could do wonders to make people comfortable in being who they are instead of thriving to be unrealistically perfect.

 

[Professor Zoom]

You can easily reconcile stuff if you stop making assumptions.

I only have your words to go on.

 

[jaime]

Benedict Wong is fit enough to do action scenes in MCU movies, he's fit enough to run down a corridor while being chased by a Dalek.

On the other hand, given how much importance media places on looks, and the impression one can get from TV or movies that looking anything less than supermodel perfect is unacceptable, a more natural and ordinary looking role model could do wonders to make people comfortable in being who they are instead of thriving to be unrealistically perfect.

I am not serious about the healthy eating role model thing, as you can see from the rest of the sentence after the comma you snipped at. And we have plenty of non supermodel leads on screen in the U.K. sometimes it’s hard to tell if Walford is in the East End, or a post apocalyptic land where mutants shuffle.......... (humour.)

 

[jaime]

I only have your words to go on.

Good. Glad that’s sorted then.

 

[starsuperion]

Audiences may be progressive to a certain degree, but do we really think the BBC would authorize a rotund Doctor for Casting? I know it's superficial, but I can't see them making that a thing in casting. I can't see audiences necessarily taking a chance on an overweight Doctor either, tho I am sure all time lords come in all shapes and sizes.

 

[starsuperion]

I still think the next doctor after Whittaker should be determined by the events and actor/actress availability of the time when that comes. Storylines may also dictate that as well. Imagine if the next doctor was the Valeyard tho..if they really wanted to change up the series, have the next seasons after Whittaker involve a dark hero type aspect of the Doctor as the Valeyard since there's historical precedent for it. Why not?

Just because the trial serials depicted the Valeyard as ultimately evil, it doesn't mean they can't rehab that to a certain extent and give logical reasoning for his emergence.

However, let me offer a caveat, if they do the Valeyard in 13's run, it could go bad. With so much focus on identity issues and the hyper politically correct atmosphere of this era, I can see them setting up a split personality type scenario with the Doctor the ultimate feminist vs the Valeyard and toxic masculinity..which would be unfortunate. So, maybe the Valeyard should wait for awhile...

 

[Professor Zoom]

The Valeyard is an idea that is best forgotten.

 

[Tom]

The Valeyard is an idea that is best forgotten.

I think that just a matter of opinion, I would not mind seeing the Valeyard idea addresses again. The Doctor is over 2000 years old now, his darkside manifested in another entity is still a pretty interesting concept.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I think that just a matter of opinion, I would not mind seeing the Valeyard idea addresses again. The Doctor is over 2000 years old now, his darkside manifested in another entity is still a pretty interesting concept.

Of course it’s an opinion.
And it’s also been a concept that’s been explored.
The Dream Lord specifically comes to mind.
As well as what Davros suggested: The Doctor turning his companions into weapons. And, Capaldi’s first season: am I a good man? So, it’s not like the darker impulses of the Doctor haven’t been explored.

The Master/Mistress is also that exploration. They are a mirror for the Doctor.

The Valeyard is a holdover promise from the classic series that doesn’t need to be fulfilled.

 

[Jinn]

As much as I like the Valeyard, I don't think that he should really star in full series. I woud prefer maybe a christmas special or something like that "The Life and Times of the Valeyard in 60 minutes". I also think that having the Valeyard as the Doctor after 13 would be an error, since so far all the promotional images and stuff seems to be more positive in nature than 12's last two years. I could see the 12 regenerating into the Valeyard, if he had regenerated earlier, but after that speech at the end of Twice Upon a Time having an evil Doctor would feel a bit... I dunno, hollow?

 

[Professor Zoom]

I would be SHOCKED if they ever had the Doctor actually regenerate into the Valeyard. What would that do for the franchise? How many people have been clamoring for that? Why would the BBC want one of their premiere characters turning into a villain?

And, didn't they hedge that back in the Trial? Wasn't the Valeyard a "distillation" of the Doctor's dark side? Not necessarily a regeneration, but... something wholly more unclear?

 

[Jinn]

I watched that season some weeks ago and it was all kinda murky, plus all information comes from the Master and the Valeyard, two not exactly trustworthy individuals.

At least in series 8 there was some element of the Doctor "being a good man or a bad man" present (although I don't think they did it in a good way) I could see how going down that route you could kinda maybe arrive at the Valeyard, with the Doctor being told he is basically a Dalek, losing Clara, having to put up with Nardole for three consecutive christmas specials. I mean, that's stuff that can break you! If they ever do the Valeyard, which I highly doubt, it probably won't be for a full series anyway and the Doctor would go back to being a good guy directly after. It's probably best to not touch the Valeyard until the show gets canceled in the far future and then give it to Big Finish.

 

[The Wormhole]

If they were going to bring the Valeyard back, they probably would have tied him in with the Dream Lord from Amy's Choice. Actually, is there any reason why we can't simply connect the two characters anyway, make the Dream Lord the Valeyard's origin or something.

Screw it, that's my head canon now.

 

[Jayson1]

Could someone tell me what exactly are the Valeyard?

Jason

 

[Mr Soak]

The Valeyard (actually a Time Lord judicial prosecutor title) was in season 22. It was ultimately revealed he was a “distillation” of the Doctor’s darker aspects from between his telethon and final incarnations. As mentioned above, it is unclear exactly what this means.

In the Big Finish audios, the Sixth Doctor forced his own regeneration to prevent tha Valeyard from taking over his body.

 

[jaime]

As much as I like the Valeyard, I don't think that he should really star in full series. I woud prefer maybe a christmas special or something like that "The Life and Times of the Valeyard in 60 minutes". I also think that having the Valeyard as the Doctor after 13 would be an error, since so far all the promotional images and stuff seems to be more positive in nature than 12's last two years. I could see the 12 regenerating into the Valeyard, if he had regenerated earlier, but after that speech at the end of Twice Upon a Time having an evil Doctor would feel a bit... I dunno, hollow?

For a while I thought he was going to roll back into Matt Smith with Capaldis Doctor descending into the Valeyard and choosing to do that instead. It matches the ‘between your twelfth and final incarnations’ to some extent.

 

[jaime]

If they were going to bring the Valeyard back, they probably would have tied him in with the Dream Lord from Amy's Choice. Actually, is there any reason why we can't simply connect the two characters anyway, make the Dream Lord the Valeyard's origin or something.

Screw it, that's my head canon now.

Valeyard would probably have been wiped out by the events on Trenzalore, or is a timeline altered ten, who really didn’t want to go.

 

[jaime]

I would be SHOCKED if they ever had the Doctor actually regenerate into the Valeyard. What would that do for the franchise? How many people have been clamoring for that? Why would the BBC want one of their premiere characters turning into a villain?

And, didn't they hedge that back in the Trial? Wasn't the Valeyard a "distillation" of the Doctor's dark side? Not necessarily a regeneration, but... something wholly more unclear?

Missy turned good. If they had swapped the roles for a year or two, they could have got away with it...have Bills transformation break the doctor, and Missy take up the mantle, just as teased on the bridge. Everyone gets their cake and eats it (a popular hope round these parts) and you even get a female Doctor into the bargain, with a get out clause in case it doesn’t fly with the viewers for any reason. I know I would have liked to see Missy finish her metamorphosis. Has odd echoes of Ghost Light too.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Missy turned good. If they had swapped the roles for a year or two, they could have got away with it...have Bills transformation break the doctor, and Missy take up the mantle, just as teased on the bridge. Everyone gets their cake and eats it (a popular hope round these parts) and you even get a female Doctor into the bargain, with a get out clause in case it doesn’t fly with the viewers for any reason. I know I would have liked to see Missy finish her metamorphosis. Has odd echoes of Ghost Light too.

No. We would have had a Missy.
We are getting a female Doctor.

 

[jaime]

No. We would have had a Missy.
We are getting a female Doctor.

I think the ‘Doctor’ (as an individual) having to vanish for a year, while hai greatest enemy now turned, takes up the mantle, is an interesting story. It’s not even the first time it’s been played with. (Curse of the Fatal Death, and literally the opening of last years two part finale.) Theres also been a running theme of the Doctor almost creating more versions of himself as he goes....Me, Clara...and the idea of him sort of going into hiding to solve a problem cropped up a few times. It would also have been a nice positive end to Missy’s arc (though her bittersweet ‘without witness’ end was good, I like a happy ending.
As a narrative it would have been interesting.

And I don’t give a monkeys about the Doctor being female, the decision has been made, I think on balance it wasn’t a good decision, and have explained why that is, in terms that really have nothing to with sexism (no matter how people may wish to jump through hoops to attempt to prove otherwise, because they disagree with my opinion, and it’s easier to paint it as something unpleasant than actually argue with the reasoning.) I have even named an actress as a suggestion in this very thread...now the decision has been taken after all.
The Missy/Doctor switch, would have been even braver in some respects, and still would have given a female lead, going under the Doctor mantle, in Doctor Who. A bit of joggers pokery with the telepathic circuits, and there could even have been a certain level of interesting literal mixing between the characters. It’s not the kind of thing they are likely to do on TV mind you. It certainly had enough build up and set up that could have gone that way, and I think it would have been interesting, from a story perspective.

You enjoy your new Doctor. I am sure there will be wonderful posters and toys. Especially once they get her a decent outfit, the current one is a bit...bland. I am not going in odd circles again, repeating myself for people who don’t seem to understand words and see an argument that isn’t there. I left that conversation alone, and only mention it in passing while discussing some of the ways it could have turned in the story. I have made no new argument against female Doctors of the Time Lord variety. I don’t really have a ‘Doctor should never be a girl’ opinion after all, I have a ‘the character served a valuable role as a male, and am not sure it should have been changed’ opinion. Which are two very different things, but people will be people and look for battles and villains where there are none.

I am ninety percent sure you didn’t even see me suggest an actress, though you replied to the comment, because you are intent on a fight. *shrug*

I am not interested in fighting with people I probably mostly agree with, it seems a waste of everyone’s energy. There are actual arguments worth having.