Who is the better captain Picard or Jellico

[Voth commando1]

Jellico striked me as the sort of all business captain. He needed to get the job done, and he didn't have time to care for what the crew thought of him.

A captain like Jellico would indeed be the sort of captain in the long run to have crews transfer, quit, burn out, or otherwise leave. He doesn't inspire loyalty or devotion.

Jellico would probably respond to that by saying "I don't expect the crew to love me, or even like me, I expect them to do their jobs, and if they can't handle that, they can transfer to a different ship or leave the service, they can think about me or feel about me whatever they want, so long as they do their jobs I don't care about their private feelings toward me."

He's that sort of leader. And in some situations you want a captain who is willing to get the job done even if his subordinates despise or resent him and who doesn't care if his decisions offend or upset people. And in some cases that's the sort of captain you absolutely don't want. The sort of situation where that sort of captain causes the crew to waver, fail, retreat, mutiny, or otherwise break.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Jellico striked me as the sort of all business captain. He needed to get the job done, and he didn't have time to care for what the crew thought of him.

A captain like Jellico would indeed be the sort of captain in the long run to have crews transfer, quit, burn out, or otherwise leave. He doesn't inspire loyalty or devotion. ...

I disagree and feel your assessment is short-sighted and unrealistic. Jellico, based on what we were given in The Chain of Command Pts I & II, , may not have demanded or cared if his crew "loved" him but he did conduct himself in a manner that would inspire respect (and that I daresay is something he would have cared about). A great many in a service love the order and discipline and would thrive under the command of someone like Jellico. The Vulcans, for example, would more than likely embrace his no-nonsense style. Just as there is no one preferred style of command (though there are certain characteristics that all good captains would share - though to differing degrees) there are also a healthy variety of crew members. Again, a great many are inspired by a stern commander who is decisive, consistent, competent, just and who lets them know exactly what is expected of them. In fact, I believe, in an actual quasi-military service organization, more would prefer a Jellico especially if they are still green.

 

[Voth commando1]

I disagree and feel your assessment is short-sighted and unrealistic. Jellico, based on what we were given in The Chain of Command Pts I & II, , may not have demanded or cared if his crew "loved" him but he did conduct himself in a manner that would inspire respect (and that I daresay is something he would have cared about). A great many in a service love the order and discipline and would thrive under the command of someone like Jellico. The Vulcans, for example, would more than likely embrace his no-nonsense style. Just as there is no one preferred style of command (though there are certain characteristics that all good captains would share - though to differing degrees) there are also a healthy variety of crew members. Again, a great many are inspired by a stern commander who is decisive, consistent, competent, just and who lets them know exactly what is expected of them. In fact, I believe, in an actual quasi-military service organization, more would prefer a Jellico especially if they are still green.

I disagree. Jellico didn't seem to care about the crew's opinions. Did he have vulnerabilities yes, and did he have things structured? Yes.

But he isn't inspiring, Picard is the sort of captain the crew will follow, in war and peace, in mundane crises, and crazy anomalies. Jellico doesn't inspire that devotion. Picard will do whatever it takes for his crew, Jellico isn't like that. Jellico doesn't inspire that sort of faith.

Is Jellico capable in the traditional military sense? Yes. But he doesn't have the shining paragon of moral virtue and intellectual openness and dare I say bravery that Picard does. Jellico doesn't inspire people to put themselves out on limb for him. Picard does. People will sing Picard's praises becuase he is lenient and empathetic, but that doesn't hinder his effectiveness.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

People will sing Picard's praises becuase he is lenient and empathetic, but that doesn't hinder his effectiveness.

One might think that but, pragmatically speaking, leniency and empathy in commanding officers, especially in times of crisis, inspires doubt, relaxed standards and a breakdown of command. Jellico was not much different than Captain Kirk and Kirk is a far better captain than Picard.

 

[Voth commando1]

One might think that but, pragmatically speaking, leniency and empathy in commanding officers, especially in times of crisis, inspires doubt, relaxed standards and a breakdown of command. Jellico was not much different than Captain Kirk and Kirk is a far better captain than Picard.

I disagree with you on the Kirk point. Though that is subjective I suppose.

Picard is lenient and empathetic but he isn't soft in that he lets offenses pass or that he doesn't expect the job be done.

 

[Gabriel]

I disagree with you on the Kirk point. Though that is subjective I suppose.

No Kirk was better and jellico are a like in a way.
I mean Kirk wasn’t exactly like jellico but they are similar. Although this is just my opinion though. Frankly I disagree with janeway saying that Kirk and his crew would not be able to operate be in the 24th century starfleet. While Kirk is not my favorite captains he has shown many times that he is a great captain.

 

[Voth commando1]

No Kirk was better and jellico are a like in a way.
I mean Kirk wasn’t exactly like jellico but they are similar

Erhm, no I really do think Picard was the better captain.

 

[Gabriel]

Erhm, no I really do think Picard was the better captain.

I’m assuming you mean jellico vs picard (in which in some instances you are right) however if you mean Kirk vs picard.
No, Kirk has saved the federation and earth on many occasions and is a captain most would want to serve on. Kirk has shown that he can balance diplomacy, exploration, and defense better than most.

 

[Discofan]

When Kurn, Worf's Klingon Brother, brought a little discipline and even severity on board it didn't seem to displease Picard in the least, in fact, he was all for it. If he had time to think about it, instead of his mission, Picard would have approved of Jellico's style of command. I am pretty sure of it.

 

[Makarov]

Picard already seemed displeased with Jellico's judgment of Riker. He already rubbed Picard the wrong way by tossing that book at him and telling him he's not coming back.

I don't think the engineering crew would be more disciplined after the round the clock changes, they would just be burnt out and possibly needing more time to get up to speed working with the new configurations.

 

[Qonundrum]

True, Picard wasn't pleased with Jellico's treatment of Riker - observation and personal friendship being partial factors. Doesn't mean Picard would disapprove of Jellico based on his overall record, despite occasional differences?

 

[Gabriel]

Picard already seemed displeased with Jellico's judgment of Riker. He already rubbed Picard the wrong way by tossing that book at him and telling him he's not coming back.

I don't think the engineering crew would be more disciplined after the round the clock changes, they would just be burnt out and possibly needing more time to get up to speed working with the new configurations.

Engineers probably have been having to work around the clock sometimes since WWI. If they can’t handle it then they shouldn’t wear the uniform. And by the way starfleet crew seem fine when they have to pull double shifts every now and then.

 

[Nyotarules]

I disagree. Jellico didn't seem to care about the crew's opinions. Did he have vulnerabilities yes, and did he have things structured? Yes.

But he isn't inspiring, Picard is the sort of captain the crew will follow, in war and peace, in mundane crises, and crazy anomalies. Jellico doesn't inspire that devotion. Picard will do whatever it takes for his crew, Jellico isn't like that. Jellico doesn't inspire that sort of faith.

Is Jellico capable in the traditional military sense? Yes. But he doesn't have the shining paragon of moral virtue and intellectual openness and dare I say bravery that Picard does. Jellico doesn't inspire people to put themselves out on limb for him. Picard does. People will sing Picard's praises becuase he is lenient and empathetic, but that doesn't hinder his effectiveness.

Comparing the viewers' perception of Picard who had 6 seasons to get know the character to Jellico who shows up under potential war scenario for 2 episodes is an extremely weak comparison. I think Jellico is closer to TOS Kirk, who in some episodes made an order and expected it to be carried out, said order was not open to discussion.
I think McCoy being almost downright subordinate towards the Captain (Kirk was his friend who gave him too much rope IMO) and the XO (just because said XO Spock, was half human) has probably given the audience a wrong perception of discipline on a semi military space ship.

 

[Discofan]

Comparing the viewers' perception of Picard who had 6 seasons to get know the character to Jellico who shows up under potential war scenario for 2 episodes is an extremely weak comparison. I think Jellico is closer to TOS Kirk, who in some episodes made an order and expected it to be carried out, said order was not open to discussion.
I think McCoy being almost downright subordinate towards the Captain (Kirk was his friend who gave him too much rope IMO) and the XO (just because said XO Spock, was half human) has probably given the audience a wrong perception of discipline on a semi military space ship.

I don't like that in the episode(s) we were sort of urged to think like Riker when he said and did all the wrong things!
I wanted to look the writer(s) in the eyes and ask "Are you kidding me?"

 

[Mojochi]

I disagree. Jellico didn't seem to care about the crew's opinions. Did he have vulnerabilities yes, and did he have things structured? Yes.

But he isn't inspiring, Picard is the sort of captain the crew will follow, in war and peace, in mundane crises, and crazy anomalies. Jellico doesn't inspire that devotion. Picard will do whatever it takes for his crew, Jellico isn't like that. Jellico doesn't inspire that sort of faith.

Is Jellico capable in the traditional military sense? Yes. But he doesn't have the shining paragon of moral virtue and intellectual openness and dare I say bravery that Picard does. Jellico doesn't inspire people to put themselves out on limb for him. Picard does. People will sing Picard's praises becuase he is lenient and empathetic, but that doesn't hinder his effectiveness.

You see though, all of that judgment is based on a singular example of how Jellico had to work, under this one & only circumstance. We don't know that his decisions here or even his posture are at all what he does under normal operations. It's what he & perhaps his superiors concluded was the simplest way to undergo this particularly set of conditions, but it's entirely possible that back on the Cairo, they find him entirely dissimilar to what he's having to be here, because he is in just as uncompromising a situation as Picard is.

Their missions are, by all rights, both impossible, except for the thinnest margin. He could very well be executing things along that narrow line, because anything else fails. People only assume he is doing what he's doing by choice or preference, which makes him dislikable. If he isn't though... then he becomes a very sympathetic character imho

 

[JesterFace]

This thread should just fade away.

Like it has been mentioned before, there's no way to compare Picard and Jellico as captains.
Picard was in every episode for 7 years, Jellico was in 2 episodes.
That could be the end of that discussion.
Over and out.

And now I just bumped this thread up.. oh no.

 

[Gabriel]

This thread should just fade away.

That’s just your opinion. maybe it’s right or wrong but then again just about all opinions are like that. I doubt all will listen to you. Although I have really stop posting in this thread so much I will still comeback to see what people put down.
the question should have been is jellico a good captain.
Because really by now why we use for Picard for reference I think we’re just judging Jellico by now.
And thanks for bumping it up

 

[Discofan]

Let's not forget that Picard is the star of the show and in any such discussions that gives him a decisive edge.

 

[Gabriel]

Ehh yeah but I can be a little more neutral because picard and jellico aren’t my favorite captain (its Sisko) so I’m not making invalid arguments just to defend my favorite.

 

[Noname Given]

People will sing Picard's praises becuase he is lenient and empathetic, but that doesn't hinder his effectiveness.

The crew killed and the loss of his Starship at the time to a Ferengi ship (see TNG S1 - "The Battle") would probably disagree with that assessment.

So would the 18 crew members lost when Picard ignored Guinan's advice (See TNG S2 - "Q Who") RE: The Borg (Whom her people encountered a century before.)

Then there's his description of what happened to the U.S.S. Stargazer during the Cardassian/Federation war, where he was sent to make an 'overture to peace' and UNILATERALLY dropped the ship's shields resulting in casualties, major damage to the vessel, and Picard had to beat a hasty retreat. (See TNG S4 - "The Wounded").

Picard's view often hindered his effectiveness as a Captain when you consider the lives and property damage it often cost.

 

[Makarov]

Dropping the shields also avoided war with the romulans in that episode with tomalak while Geordi was stranded.. They have to take risks to achieve peace