Who do you think should have killed Dukat?
- Thread starter TiberiusMaximus
- Start date
i would have to agree
But If I had a choice, it would of been someone no one would ever think of like Jake lol
Kira had the most right since he spent half the series and all of her back story making her life hell. Worf also has plenty of right to kill Dukat as well.
Completely disagree. Jadzia was killed as a result of Dukats insane quest for vengeance against Sisko. His intent was to release the Pah Wraiths into the wormhole before he even had become inhabited by them. Also, in Covenant he as much as admitted complicity in her murder.
As for it being a lame repeat of the vengeance against K'Ehelyr, it's a different scenario. In the case of Worf killing Duras, that happened quickly, within an hour or so. Duras was extremely easy to find since he was on a Bird of Prey right in front of the Enterprise. Dukat had gone dark and was not exactly the easiest person to find. We're talking about the difference between an instantaneous reaction and something that would take time and planning.
Rather than Worf having a focus to avenge Jadzias murder, he focused on getting her into Sto-Vo-Kor, which was interesting, but not the end of the story.
As for Ezri being the one to end Dukat, I think that could have been a very interesting story too. Killing the person who killed you. Ezri was such a meek character, it would have been interesting to see her come alive a little more.
And the argument that Dukat didn't know Worf or Dax well enough doesn't hold much for me. Apparently not knowing Jadzia very well didn't stop him from Killing Her.
Hmm, I think most of the characters were to compassionate. They would not kill in cold blood out of revenge a man, that they might hate, but that they also know is insane, which means ILL.
There would not be honour in killing a man who is ill, nor true justice.
Those characters would, in my opinion only had killed Dukat out of self-defense....well maybe not Garak, but also he I´d like to think had developed on during his time on DS9 and the rebelion and would also not kill Dukat in cold blood.
I still like idea that Damar and Dukat meet again, even now, after thinking about this some more, I think it maybe should be Sisko who defeats Dukat and captures him, not Damar. But Sisko would not kill him. He would continue the way it should have gone the first time, bringing Dukat to justice within Federation law and into a closed, mental hospital.
Dukat and Damar, who of course survived the war, would have a scene there...
maybe were Damar apolozises for killing his daughter and Dukat would finally react how he should have, angry and not forgiving.
I so would have loved a scene were Ziyals death finally is topic, be it with Dukat or Kira or Garak (well, but I know, thats another topic).
TerokNor
There would not be honour in killing a man who is ill, nor true justice.
Those characters would, in my opinion only had killed Dukat out of self-defense....well maybe not Garak, but also he I´d like to think had developed on during his time on DS9 and the rebelion and would also not kill Dukat in cold blood.
I still like idea that Damar and Dukat meet again, even now, after thinking about this some more, I think it maybe should be Sisko who defeats Dukat and captures him, not Damar. But Sisko would not kill him. He would continue the way it should have gone the first time, bringing Dukat to justice within Federation law and into a closed, mental hospital.
Dukat and Damar, who of course survived the war, would have a scene there...
maybe were Damar apolozises for killing his daughter and Dukat would finally react how he should have, angry and not forgiving.
I so would have loved a scene were Ziyals death finally is topic, be it with Dukat or Kira or Garak (well, but I know, thats another topic).
TerokNor
And you've just undermined your argument and proved my point (which, apparently, you misunderstood in the first place), Dukat getting killed by someone who hardly even knew him would have no emotional and dramatic weight. Are you telling me that Jadzia's death was a great death scene and a dramatically satisfying moment?
You know, that reminds me--it's funny that Damar's family gets closure (in that they are murdered) despite being no more than a plot point and as far as I recall hardly mentioned prior to that point, but Dukat, who mentioned his family, like, every time we saw him and with little provocation, and whose family we have a certain knowledge of even if we never saw them, again as far as I recall never mentions them again after Waltz.
I guess they're dead now.
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
Dukat did NONE of these things for the bajorans, Navaros.
He did it for himself, for his own ego.
And he HATED the bajorans for not satisfying his ego by loving him, denying him his purpose in implementing those 'improvements'.
Well despite all these 'they didn't know him' arguments, which I do consider valid, my first instinct when I read the title of this thread was 'Worf or Ezri' and it still is. I don't care if Worf didn't know Dukat and Dukat was 'possessed'. He killed the man's wife and the man should exact bloody revenge on him for that. Bottom line. As others have said, it's Dukat's fault for getting involved with that evil spirit mumbo jumbo in the first place, so he's not just a total innocent who was possessed against his own will (like Keiko, for example). If I had to choose an option from the poll, I'd still go with Worf and preferrably without being killed himself in the process. Part of why Dukat's death was so unsatisfying was that a major character was wasted over it.
If I could make any choice I want, I would say either the writers should have killed him or he should have killed himself after "Sacrfice of Angels", because up to that episode, he was one of my favourite villains ever on Star Trek. In every appearance he made after that, I thought he was a shitty character and was bored, irritated, and wishing I was watching something else every moment he was on screen. I can't even stand to watch most of the 'final arc' episodes anymore because they have so many wretched scenes between he and Kai Winn.
If I could make any choice I want, I would say either the writers should have killed him or he should have killed himself after "Sacrfice of Angels", because up to that episode, he was one of my favourite villains ever on Star Trek. In every appearance he made after that, I thought he was a shitty character and was bored, irritated, and wishing I was watching something else every moment he was on screen. I can't even stand to watch most of the 'final arc' episodes anymore because they have so many wretched scenes between he and Kai Winn.
Jadzias death was a dramatic incident, and unsatisfying. It was a cold blooded murder. Actually I didn't undermine my argument, I proved it. Dukat killed Jadzia, prior to that he and Worf had very little connection, then such a connection was created with Jadzias Murder.
Also, I like the idea that even though he had been responsible for many deaths throughout his career, it was just one senseless murder that was enough to earn vengeance against him.
Kira doing it is too predictable, they'd been through too many episodes together. Same for Sisko.
I don't think he should have died. I think he should have gone to prison after Sacrifice of Angels. In Waltz they were transporting him so he could be put on trial - personally I think it might have been interesting if that trial had gone ahead. Maybe we could have seen him a few more times after that in prison - have him talk to Kira about Ziyal for example.
Let's look at it like this:
For 6 years, we had gotten to know Dukat as a recurring Cardassian military presence, as the former head of Bajoran occupation and former commander of DS9/Terok Nor, father of Ziyal, head of Cardassian Union, he had an interesting dynamic for Sisko and a very interesting and complex dynamic with Kira, and of course, he was the guy who aligned Cardassia with Dominion and overtook DS9...
Then in season 6 finale, he gets possessed by an evil spirit
and commits a rather random murder of a main character. From that moment on, his story arc changes 180 degrees; Dominion, Bajor and everything else is forgotten, and it all becomes a typical Klingon revenge story, the kind we've already seen several times before - (Worf already had one revenge killing on TNG, and we've even seen a Klingon revenge story on DS9 with Blood Oath).Yeah, that would be really lame. In a way, it would be even weaker than what we did get - everyone knows by now that I despise the Pah-wraiths storyline, but I have to admit one thing: at least Sisko and Dukat had had an established dynamic and rivalry since the pilot.
What could possibly be more predictable than having Dukat killed by Worf out of revenge for Jadzia? And, unlike Dukat's conflict with Kira or Sisko, it would be inherently very simple and uninteresting.
I agree, I'd love to have seen that. I answered the question from the poll under the assumption that Dukat would get killed, but your scenario is much more interesting. I have also thought about his while trying to think of more satisfying endings to Dukat's arc in fanfic I've planned to write... which I'll probably never finish
Having digested this question a bit and rewatched a couple of episodes, I think I'm going to go ahead and agree with you here.
I think I would go back and rewrite the resistance and rebellion on Cardassia arc with Garak, Kira, Odo, Damar and Dukat all involved. Dukat could either replace Rusot, or Rusot could be retained as a Dukat ally, with the two of them being antagonistic toward Kira and intent on re-establishing the Cardassian empire.
This part of the final arc is pretty awesome already, but I can imagine it being even better with Dukat thrown in. The whole Ziyal issue would have to be dealt with as well.
This would mean totally revamping the end of the Prophets/Emissary storyline, but so be it
As I see it, the way it all happened with Sisko was the only logical way.
The Prophets and Pah-Wraiths were supposed to have a final show down using two humanoid hosts, which began with Kira and Jake Sisko, which Kai Winn screwed up.... in order for the entire series to end properly, it had to be Dukat and Sisko, since Dukat became host of a Pah-Wraith once again and Sisko was "Of Bajor" AKA: Son of a Profit.
It couldn't have been Kira, because the final message of the entire series would be that murderous revenge for an evil crime is ok. Maybe it is, that's up for the individual to decide.... but I don't think that's the message they'd want people to be left with at the end of the series. Kira had to be better then Dukat and not sink to his level.
Garak could have fought and killed Dukat, but not only would it have been similar to Kira's situation, he wouldn't have had the glorious ending he did in the series where he helped Cardassia reclaim its independence and with Damar now dead, the ending left him wide open to lead Cardassia into a new era, not to mention no longer being exiled.
And for Worf doing the deed?
Well, he already did the revenge thing with Duras when he killed his mate in TNG.... it would have just been a recycling of something already done..... besides, I can't picture a good fight between Worf and Dukat.... Worf would have taken him out in 3 seconds..... where's the fun?
The Prophets and Pah-Wraiths were supposed to have a final show down using two humanoid hosts, which began with Kira and Jake Sisko, which Kai Winn screwed up.... in order for the entire series to end properly, it had to be Dukat and Sisko, since Dukat became host of a Pah-Wraith once again and Sisko was "Of Bajor" AKA: Son of a Profit.
It couldn't have been Kira, because the final message of the entire series would be that murderous revenge for an evil crime is ok. Maybe it is, that's up for the individual to decide.... but I don't think that's the message they'd want people to be left with at the end of the series. Kira had to be better then Dukat and not sink to his level.
Garak could have fought and killed Dukat, but not only would it have been similar to Kira's situation, he wouldn't have had the glorious ending he did in the series where he helped Cardassia reclaim its independence and with Damar now dead, the ending left him wide open to lead Cardassia into a new era, not to mention no longer being exiled.
And for Worf doing the deed?
Well, he already did the revenge thing with Duras when he killed his mate in TNG.... it would have just been a recycling of something already done..... besides, I can't picture a good fight between Worf and Dukat.... Worf would have taken him out in 3 seconds..... where's the fun?
I absolutely would not want to see a "revenge killing", and when I answered "Kira", I definitely did not mean that. Under the assumption from the title that someone would kill Dukat (in a scenario where they feel they have to do it - and it's not hard to imagine that he could be dangerous, especially if insane as the show made him), I answered who would I most want to be involved in a storyline about Dukat's death because it would be most interesting and dramatically satisfying (IMO, that would be 1. Kira, 2. Sisko, and I see that 3. Damar would also have that effect; it wouldn't be as interesting if it's a character that Dukat does not have an established relationship).
Thank you!
Um... based on what?
It's even more incredible that none of the many Trek novels and stories - to the best of my knowledge - ever dealt with that, either. Just think of all the stuff you could do with Dukat's background and family. Between a prematurely dead father executed for treason (you have to wonder how that affect Dukat, his career and his ambitions?), a mother ready to disown her son for bringing shame to the family (seems that social norms were more stronger than motherly love there... I wonder if she had to renounce her husband in the past? Did their children have to?), a Cardassian wife and a bunch of kids we know very little about, a long-time Bajoran mistress, Tora Naprem (another often mentioned character we know nothing about) and their half-Bajoran daughter, and a bunch of other mistresses/comfort women, there's lots of material worthy of The Sopranos.
Fair enough on the Kira thing, though I suspect if it went down that road, many here would be having the same conversation we're having now towards who else would have been better suited for the role and I believe that no matter how someone written the fight, many would probably still see it in a bit of a revenge angle, perhaps not in a direct manner, but more of a subconscious level.
As it goes for Damar, as far as I'm aware, Damar never had any real ill-feelings towards Dukat and was still decently loyal to him.
Um... based on what?
The fact that through TNG and DS9, Worf was always portrayed as one of the greatest fighters (like a Bruce Lee of the Galaxy if you will) He killed Duras, Killed Gowron, was Grand Champion Standing or whatever in one of the tournaments he attended in one of the later season episodes of TNG.... basically Worf kills or beats the living snot out of anybody who fights him...
.... But Dukat never really showed his hand to hand combat abilities, usually got others to do his dirty work, or was in control of a ship or station loaded with weapons. I'm sure Dukat isn't too bad with fighting hand to hand, but simply wouldn't have been a match for Worf.
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