Who do you think should have killed Dukat?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by TiberiusMaximus, Apr 28, 2010.

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Who should have killed Dukat

  1. Sisko - it was his destiny

    9 vote(s)
    29.0%
  2. Kira - for all he did to Bajor

    16 vote(s)
    51.6%
  3. Garak - because Dukat forgave Damar for killing Ziyal

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%
  4. Worf - to avenge Jadzia

    5 vote(s)
    16.1%
  1. TiberiusMaximus

    TiberiusMaximus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    A lot of people have reason to want Dukat dead, who do you think is/would be most fitting?
     
  2. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sisko, but at the end of Waltz.
     
  3. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sisko, just the way it happened.
     
  4. LeadHead

    LeadHead Director of Comedy Admiral

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    The way it happened was good, but since Jadzia was directly killed by Dukat, it should have been Worf or Ezri to end him.
     
  5. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Damar. Just think of the dramatic irony!
     
  6. Bones2

    Bones2 Commodore Commodore

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    No one. He was the best character in the show.
     
  7. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kira.

    Sisko killing him could also have been good, but the way it happened (if that's what happened?) sucked.
    It definitely shouldn't have been Worf nor Ezri. They hardly even knew Dukat, there was no emotional investment in such a storyline, no dramatic interest. And Jadzia wasn't even killed by Dukat, but by the Pah-wraith in his body. There were many, many other crimes that Dukat had committed while in full possession of his capacities and was fully responsible for.

    Besides, do you want a huge event in DS9 to be a lame and pale imitation of an event in TNG (Worf killing Duras as a revenge for K'Ehleyr - which was dramatically way more satisfying, as Worf and Duras had been enemies from before, and Duras actually meant to kill K'Ehleyr, and was not possessed by any evil spirits when he did it)?

    The explanation of the Garak option is weird. -"because Dukat forgave Damar for killing Ziyal?" Well, so did Garak! :cardie: Anyway, I don't think Garak should have killed him - wouldn't be interesting enough, and Garak is one of the few people that, from what we know, Dukat has better reasons to hate and want revenge against than the other way round.

    Damar had already killed him in a way, he destroyed Dukat when he killed Ziyal. That was all the dramatic irony we needed.

    When great characters get great deaths (in a dramatic sense), this makes their story arc all the more satisfying.
     
  8. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    I don't think he should have been killed. He should have been forced to live with his utter failure.
     
  9. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    Kira. After all he did to Bajor, is there any other choice?
     
  10. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Now that wouldn't have been a bad idea. Dukat was dead as a character after Waltz, anyway. The writers couldn't even decide if he was insane or not, for Prophets' sake! But remove Sisko's line about "true evil". 4/5 of the episode could work the same way. Dukat is being haunted by his demons - in the shape of Kira, Weyoun and Damar - and trying to justify all his actions, but in the end he is forced to recognize that he had in fact been driven by hatred, anger, ambition, and a desperate desire for a personal recognition, and that he has been a failure and everything he has done has ended in disaster. But this realization and pain and despair only makes him more destructive. Sisko tries to reason with him, saying that Dukat might get psychological help from Federation doctors, he might be able to see his children one day again, and so on - things he might not quite believe himself, but is just trying to come up with something to calm the desperate madman or buy time; this just enrages Dukat, who is too proud and arrogant to accept life as a sorry failure who needs help. Sisko is finally forced to kill him, practically putting him out of his misery.

    This would have been even better. I'd have him live to see the devastation of Cardassia - and he would have to be rational enough to understand what is going on - and realize that everything he has done has lead to a complete disaster - his daughter dead, Cardassia ruined - and that the entire Quadrant despises him. It would be interesting to see if and how he would be able to live with that.
     
  11. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I dunno. There was even more potential later on had they gone a slightly different road.

    Dukat was essentially responsible for getting Damar to rise up against the Dominion, inspiring him to once again "be the man that fought against the Klingons at my side." Of course, by this point, Dukat has little interest in the affairs of his Cardassian brothers, simply focused on being the Anti-Emissary (or whatever), but getting the ol' pep talk from his former mentor definitely lit a fire up Damar's ass.

    Anyhow, Dominion defeated, yada yada, except in this case, Damar survives etc etc. Dukat unleashes the Wraiths and carries on over his "destroy the galaxy" shtick. Sisko proves useless for whatever reason, and Dukat becomes a major threat. Damar realizes the danger and goes out of his way to do the necessary deed. He ends up having to kill the very man he idolized and inspired him to save his people, forcing him to finally acknowledge that, well, Dukat really wasn't such a hero after all. Damar's journey from Old Cardassia is complete.

    Well, just a thought.

    Edit:
    See, I think he was already living with that, and turned to the Pah-Wraiths for his (self-serving) salvation.

    Dukat: "If the galaxy won't love me, I'll find someone who will."
    Pah-Wraiths: "Yo, we'll love you, bro. Just do us a small favor, eh?"
    Dukat: "What do you need?"
    Pah-Wraiths: "Yo, get rid of the Prophets, and we love you long time."
    Dukat: "No problem. Sweet, I'm loved again, now by a higher power!"
     
  12. TerokNor

    TerokNor Captain Captain

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    I like Sykonees idea with Dukat and Damar. However I would not have Damar kill him, but capture him and bringing him there were he may get "help".

    TerokNor
     
  13. iamtosk

    iamtosk Captain Captain

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    Out of those choices, certainly Kira. Preferably by snapping his Cardassian neck with her bare hands.
     
  14. TiberiusMaximus

    TiberiusMaximus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    When did that happen? I don't remember that being stated.

    I think it should have been Kira, she seems to me to have the strongest motive. Thanks for all the responses so far.
     
  15. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She certainly has the motive, but I like the direction the writers took with her. She outgrew the desire for revenge that might have motivated her earlier on, to the point where she is fighting for Cardassia's freedom. Only an individual who had truly overcome the traumatism of the occupation would be capable of this, which makes this a greater victory for Kira than killing Dukat could ever be.

    By contrast, Dukat grows increasingly obsessed with Bajor and the Prophets to the point where it destroys the more sympathetic qualities he previously displayed on occasion. I'm not sure it was necessary to do that to Dukat, but I'm pretty sure that what the writers chose to do with Kira is better than having her engage in some futile effort to avenge past crimes.

    I can imagine all kinds of scenarios that might have been better for Dukat's final arc (including not killing him at all), but Kira's character arc is just about perfect as is, and I don't think having her kill Dukat would have improved it.
     
  16. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, he might not have actually forgiven him, but he was willing to set it aside while he fought alongside him, and didn't mention it/do anything about it, and if he had any intention of ever making Damar pay for it in any way, we certainly don't know it. So what was he going to say, "I'm going to kill you, Dukat, because you haven't avenged Ziyal's death by killing Damar"? :cardie: Now that would just be ironic, wouldn't it?

    You're right that for Kira to kill him out of revenge or anger would set back her development (though it wouldn't have surprised me, since Dukat had a way of getting under her skin like no one else) but some kind of revenge killing is not what I had in mind. But I don't see a problem if she (or anyone else) kills him out of necessity - Dukat was still able to be a real danger, and he wasn't just going to surrender. When I said I would choose Kira to have killed him, I mean that, I would have wanted Kira to be somehow involved in Dukat's final arc, after all the history they had, rather than for their complex dynamic to fade away. And if Dukat's ending was to die by someone's hand, than I'd rather have Kira be that person (Sisko would be the second choice) rather than someone he hardly ever shared a scene with. But I certainly don't mean "Die, you bastard!" and that's it, everyone's happy - that would have sucked at much as what we got. However, if it was written well, it could be really grand, dramatic moment.
     
  17. Navaros

    Navaros Commodore Commodore

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    No one should have killed Dukat.

    btw, no one did kill Dukat in the series.

    Dukat should have lived and also he should not have been fubared as of Waltz, either.


    Dukat helped to improve the conditions for Bajorans and also he treated Kira's mother (who loved him) very nicely. Kira should have given Dukat a medal, not murder him as you and many others suggest.
     
  18. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I hear what you're saying. I think the crux of the issue is the treatment of Dukat post-Waltz. The development of the ugly underside of Dukat's patronizing attitude toward the Bajorans was welcome as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not sure that meant that Dukat needed to become the leader of a Pagh-Wraith cult and eventually the Evil Emmissary.

    On some level I can see how the writers saw this as an extension of Dukat's egomania and his love/hate relationship with the Bajorans, but I think they could have dealt with this aspect of his personality in a more nuanced manner.

    Anyway, yeah, given a chance to rewrite Dukat's final arc, I could see Kira being more directly involved. "Covenant" was the show's last look at their relationship, and Dukat is hardly recognizable.
     
  19. Bones2

    Bones2 Commodore Commodore

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    I think I love you.
     
  20. TiberiusMaximus

    TiberiusMaximus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Ummm...what do you call being tackled into a pit of eternal flame?

    I don't like the way Dukat's final arc turned out, but I think I should have added some more choices to the poll and made it What Do You Think Should Have Happened To Dukat?

    I actually think this thread has changed my mind about Dukat,

    I think if Kira had killed Dukat, it wouldn't have been out of revenge but perhaps as the only way to save Bajor from his obsession with destroying it. However, it would be very...fitting if he were left insane after his daughter's death (I mean the helpless, frightened insanity, not the "try to rule the galaxy and destroy Bajor while I'm at it" insanity). Justice can be served without vengeance, everyone else 'lives happily ever after' while the villain is forced to live with his crimes.

    I think Dukat did more harm than good to the Bajorans, and his claim that he 'helped improve the conditions for Bajorans' was a lie, or at least that anything he did was superficial. He still oversaw brutal slavery.