Which uniform did you like better?

[Arpy]

New costumes for DS9 was a ratings stunt?

It wasn’t? VOY’s didn’t change. Every incarnation of Trek has had its own new uniforms, even when set in the same period. I.e. DS9 didn’t adopt TNG’s uniforms and Lower Decks isn’t adopting TNG’s. It’s not shocking to think that DS9 might have wanted to further associate itself with a very popular television and now movie series. The ratings drop throughout TV spooked them as much as anyone. They already added Worf and VOY Seven.

Hurt by TNG movies being made when they were?

I don’t think TNG and DS9 hurt each other. Not that fans don’t try to.

 

[TroiFan4ever]

New costumes for DS9 was a ratings stunt?

I highly doubt that.

Star Trek: First Contact showed the Enterprise-D crew wearing the new gray-yoked uniforms for the first time, while DS9's "Rapture" was the show's premiere of the gray-yoked uniforms. I'm not sure which was released first to the American public but given that both that movie and that episode were both set in the year 2373, it's a safe bet that that was the year that most if not all of Starfleet made the transition to those uniforms.

EDIT: I just looked it up. According to Memory Alpha, Star Trek: First Contact came out on 22 November 1996 while "Rapture"'s original airdate was 30 December 1996. Given that the movie came out before the episode, I can only assume the uniform change was because it made sense to do so for the reasons I just explained above and had less to do with ratings and they had the Enterprise-E crew wear the new uniforms to give off that new-ship-new-uniforms feel and thus made sense not preserve the pre-2373 uniforms.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Khan did say that it's very cold in space.

You'd think Starfleet would have better HVAC tech,

 

[K1productions]

Personally I love the Odyssey uniform set from Star Trek Online. I especially adore how they have different variants for Officer, Enlisted, and Cadet in all varieties. It shows clear thought and effort

 

[Arpy]

Personally I love the Odyssey uniform set from Star Trek Online. I especially adore how they have different variants for Officer, Enlisted, and Cadet in all varieties. It shows clear thought and effort

I don’t see the image.

 

[K1productions]

Try this one https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p...Ps4Yci_AViJO3UigRc6iTilTtZ_kpPATHCJgLRq2DYfDL

 

[Qonundrum]

Right now:

Don't let my super awesome avatar fool you with its avatarian charm, but I prefer the original DS9 outfits. The TNG movie uniforms seemed more drab, especially on a 60 foot screen...

6 weeks later:

The latter-era uniforms tied into the TNG movies, do look sharper, with some cool quilting, and a touch of color for the rank is more refined and dignified than HSB/RGB-overload on the screen.

6 weeks after that:

Gimme back the TOS movies with the sharp red outfits. TNG TV show had some neat angles but it all went downhill fast after that and why did TNG revert to 1966's style but with angles and shoulder padds anyway?

A dozen weeks later:

I haven't had a date in months. Get everyone to wear those TMP uniforms, especially those where there's no material hanging down in the front. Wow, now I see why the makers went that route, especially for the dude on the antigrav disc on the bridge...

The next day:

I wish it were 1966 again and color TV was new.

 

[Arpy]

Try this one https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p...Ps4Yci_AViJO3UigRc6iTilTtZ_kpPATHCJgLRq2DYfDL

I see this:

403. That’s an error.​

Your client does not have permission to get URL /proxy/IBZrD-vAgiN6u5wBWw2eJSXHr3Vv8Eb-BsaidOUqcYIPs4Yci_AViJO3UigRc6iTilTtZ_kpPATHCJgLRq2DYfDLfrom this server. (Client IP address: 131.106.17.91)​

Forbidden That’s all we know.​

 

[K1productions]

I have a proper image, but in my current newbie state, I cannot paste images from my computer onto the forum. I will need another 12 days I think

 

[Annorax849]

I like the more colourful early uniforms that Voyager continued using (and Picard essentially updates with the ST'09-style arrowhead texturing). The First Contact ones suited that movie but they were quite drab on an already very drab space station.

Plus, they had so many layers A thick vest under the heavy jacket with a shirt beneath that? What temperature did they keep DS9 at?

Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't they the same as the earlier seasons in that sense? They just switched the colors for the undershirt and the shoulders. (unless you were referring to the both)

 

[K1productions]

Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't they the same as the earlier seasons in that sense? They just switched the colors for the undershirt and the shoulders. (unless you were referring to the both)

Only in the general sense. The shoulder color of the Voyager uniform was sewn in with the black to form a single flat piece, plus the color was a smooth texture, only with a simple turtleneck underneath.
The First Contact uniforms however had a far larger grey shoulder that not only extended far further down, but was an additional layer overlayed on top of the main, with a far thicker texture, and a kind if stripe sew pattern. Further the turtlenecks were no longer simple, but with a zipper up the front and very thick piping on either side. Far bulkier than the Voyager alternative.

 

[kkt]

The original series uniforms. They look comfortable and functional. And I liked the different chest insignia for each unit we came to, before the Enterprise's insignia was retconned for all of Starfleet.

 

[diankra]

It didn't help my viewings of TNG movies; there was nothing special about the FC outfits if it could transition to TV so well. Just shows why Rick Berman should've never been hired to be the motion picture producer for Star Trek; he's best for TV... like DS9.

Though by all accounts, DS9 is the series he paid least attention to.

 

[K1productions]

Though by all accounts, DS9 is the series he paid least attention to.

Rick Berman always felt DS9 was the "B-show" focusing all his attention on TNG, and subsequently Voyager. This served to actually benefit DS9 while serving to Voyager's detriment.

 

[diankra]

Rick Berman always felt DS9 was the "B-show" focusing all his attention on TNG, and subsequently Voyager. This served to actually benefit DS9 while serving to Voyager's detriment.

Yep, ISTR DS9 writers saying 'He didn't notice what we were doing, and when he did he said 'The people who watch DS9 seem to like it, so I'll leave you alone'

 

[Arpy]

^ I dunno how much of that is an oversimplification. A show B show, he’s still EP and looking to make money. His primary focus may have been on one (as would most people) and it may have benefitted his appointed lieutenant for the other, but I don’t think he’s a distracted bumbler who doesn’t know what’s going on at every step. He let DS9 experiment because the ratings didn’t tumble for it, but I think he’d be on something in a heartbeat if/when he felt he needed to.

 

[K1productions]

^ I dunno how much of that is an oversimplification. A show B show, he’s still EP and looking to make money. His primary focus may have been on one (as would most people) and it may have benefitted his appointed lieutenant for the other, but I don’t think he’s a distracted bumbler who doesn’t know what’s going on at every step. He let DS9 experiment because the ratings didn’t tumble for it, but I think he’d be on something in a heartbeat if/when he felt he needed to.

Oversimplification or not, this is based on what I had heard from people involved with the show, during various conventions I attended. It was the very fact that Rick Berman was so hands off that allowed DS9 to try new things. As for tumbling ratings, oh DS9 most certainly DID tumble, especially when compared to TNG which was still pretty steady throughout its final seasons. DS9's premiere hit as high as TNG's highest rating, but it did an immediate nosedive afterward. Before the season was done, it reached TNG's absolute lowest rating,... and then never hit even that high ever again during its entire run. In fact every season just went down, down, down. 8.0 average by season 2, 6.0 average by season 5, bottoming out just over 4.0 at the end. TNG however hovered at a constant 12.0 average for season 5-7 with periodic spikes as high as 14.
Berman subsequently focused all his attention at making Voyager a kind of TNG-lite, figuring the same pattern would work again for his brand new baby.... but it did not. But he'd never go back to DS9 and say "I should focus more on this and see if we can boost ratings here", instead he'd outright say "we're gonna add some T&A to the show, so here's Jeri Ryan in a catsuit"

 

[Arpy]

The point is that DS9’s didn’t tumble below VOY’s. If they did, he’d be all over it. As it maintained fine on it alternate path, it was left be. But I think it’s more wishful thinking that he wasn’t paying attention. This is the franchise in which a “that is” couldn’t be changed to “that’s” without a phone call, and I don’t mean by Data. Behr was permitted to make changes over time so long as the ratings weren’t effected. But stuff didn’t happen without approval. And it’s not like anything could be hidden: it’s one hour of television a week. I think Berman was watching. Especially as he could have been replaced, too.

 

[K1productions]

The point is that DS9’s didn’t tumble below VOY’s. If they did, he’d be all over it. As it maintained fine on it alternate path, it was left be. But I think it’s more wishful thinking that he wasn’t paying attention. This is the franchise in which a “that is” couldn’t be changed to “that’s” without a phone call, and I don’t mean by Data. Behr was permitted to make changes over time so long as the ratings weren’t effected. But stuff didn’t happen without approval. And it’s not like anything could be hidden: it’s one hour of television a week. I think Berman was watching. Especially as he could have been replaced, too.

Eh... I don't think that was as much a factor. I honestly don't feel he understood DS9, and he always felt if he just dialed up the TNG formula while adding some blatant sexualization, he will get more viewers, not realizing how out of touch he actually was. Trying to replicate a past formula is a recipe for failure. Its what TNG tried to do in its first seasons before finally finding its own identity by season 3. At least with Enterprise it wasn't so much Branon Braga's fault, as the network who wanted the formulaic approach

 

[Arpy]

Eh... I don't think that was as much a factor. I honestly don't feel he understood DS9, and he always felt if he just dialed up the TNG formula while adding some blatant sexualization, he will get more viewers, not realizing how out of touch he actually was. Trying to replicate a past formula is a recipe for failure. Its what TNG tried to do in its first seasons before finally finding its own identity by season 3. At least with Enterprise it wasn't so much Branon Braga's fault, as the network who wanted the formulaic approach

He came up with DS9. I don’t think Behr’s DS9 was his, and I don’t think Berman ever fully got Star Trek. He cites enforcing the no-conflict rule as something that was Gene’s, but he he didn’t let the characters be adults who would try to understand each other and instead created Federation “lite” characters without psychologies.

Braga was good at concepts but I found him superficial. As I did the franchise under the two of them.

A moment of silence for the contributions to the franchise of Gene Coon, Michael Piller, Ronald Moore, Jeri Taylor and maybe a few others. The head honchos get too much bandwidth.

I wish I knew more about what exactly came from what studio exec and when. Producers love to blame the studio when they can’t admit it was them.