Which Spin-off is Closest in "spirit" to TOS?

[Outpost4]

I've got to agree with TNG, especially the early years. Where No One Has Gone Before, The Arsenal of Freedom and Lonely Among Us from TNG's first season could have all been Star Trek episodes. Curiously, none of these would probably be called classic Next Generation episodes. After a couple of years, TNG became its own critter, only occasionally harking back to Star Trek. An example would be Aquiel from season 6, again not a memorable TNG episode.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Funny, by now, TNG got 18 (37%) votes, DS9 23 (47%) and ENT 7 (14%), but VOY NONE! I guess that says alot about Berman, who supposednly promised VOY would be more close to TOS's spirit, back when it premiered in 1995.

TAS, continues on from the five year mission. It has all its priniciples animated to look like they did in 1966-69. With the exception of aliens M'Ress and Arex, this series could very well be TOS's fourth season, and I consider it as such. The Animated Fourth Season of TOS. Hence, my reasoning behind not including this one in the list.

 

[digifan]

Raise hand - Why isn't this thread in "General Trek" forum?

This is a no brainer. TNG is the direct "sequel" to this series.

Posted by The God Thing:
TAS.

TGT

I don't give a damn rather or not it is "canon." TAS is the unofficial fourth season of TOS.

Nuff said.

Next...

 

[Danny99]

I don't see how there can be so many votes for DS9. They had a damn war, they didn't solve their problems peacefully. I went with ENT, but I would've gone with TNG or VOY as well for the exploration.

 

[aridas sofia]

Posted by Warped9:

Posted by Number6:
I think DS9 was truer to GR's concept of the exploration of the Human Condition

Sorry. No disrespect intended. But this always crops up and it's silly. GR didn't have much of a vision of the "human condition" until the mid '70s onward when he started to take his press a little too seriously. The only other "human condition" he was concerned with back in the days was when he caught a glimpse of delectable T&A.

And for all it's failings I felt the earlier seasons of TNG resonated more closely with TOS, that is among the live-action series. Otherwise I, too, vote for TAS.

I don't think this is right. IIRC the character of Spock was created in order to comment on "the human condition." It was part of Trek from the very beginning. In later incarnations it just wasn't as well balanced with other elements as it had been in TOS, and thus seemed disproportionate and thus more prominent.

 

[Noname Given]

Enterprise hands down. The tech is far from perfect, and the characters and crewnenbers are often flawed, but wok together to resolve a situation. WAY closer to TOS then the utopian, CONSTANTLY politically correct; and 'always take and preach the moral high road' of the 24th century spinoff like THG and even DS9.

 

[Warped9]

I recall reading many years ago that GR fought to kep Spock around, but it was more to affirm the concept that this was indeed the far future and that humanity had learned to become more accepting of differences including accepting aliens with little to no reservation. Yes, Spock also served the purpose of being the outsider looking in and commenting dispassionately about human behaviour. But this was all handled mostly within context of story and we weren't beaten over the head with it.

Much of ClassicTrek's humanist vision was more a result of the general mindset of the times shared by many of those who contributed to the show and thus their perspectives invariably seeped into the series itself. GR may well have had some inkling of a positive future for humanity as a setting for Star Trek, but I'm not convinced that he ever had this grand scheme to explore the human condition. I think this has been blown way out of proportion and given weight by many years of blindly accepting this fallacy. It isn't wholly false, but t has long been distorted and encouraged by even GR himself sometime after the fact.

Hell, essentially most if not all good fiction is commentary on the human condition in one way or another.

 

[aridas sofia]

The Making of Star Trek, page 230:

From the very earliest concepts of Star Trek as a potential television series, Gene Roddenberry has insisted that Mr. Spock is a vital element. Not only because a science-fiction series should logically include an alien character, but also because Spock enables the series to make interesting social commentaries on the human race.

I knew I'd remembered reading that from a source contemporary with the show. This "commenting on the human condition" was always part of Star Trek. I remember Roddenberry saying, also early on, that Star Trek was his attempt to do social commentary in much the same way as Jonathan Swift had in Gulliver's Travels. (It's possible he even acknowledges this in the naming of "Captain Picard." Swift's master of Gulliver's first ship -- the Antelope -- is "Captain Prichard.")

Like I said -- the difference between later Trek and the original show was that originally this commentary was part of a very broad tapestry with many and varied goals and inputs. In TOS we were given repeated lessons on the failings -- still -- of 23rd century man. You get the feeling that those failings are part of human nature, incapable of being cleansed from our character by more "civilization."

This took on a very different "holier than thou" tone in the later shows. On TNG Roddenberry made the mistake of becoming a utopian and preaching the virtues of his world view via boringly "perfect" characters. Unfortunately they were perfect within a construct that doesn't ring true to people attuned to the complexities of real life, and the expectation that the future will only get more complicated.

Both shows were commentaries on the "human condition." They were just executed in very different ways.

 

[BigFoot]

DS9

 

[Botany Bay]

I'll go with TNG.

Or more specifically the first dozen episodes of TNG.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Posted by Emperor-Tiberius:
I don't understand TAS's categorization as "spin-off". It had the same actors from TOS doing the voices, the period followed TOS (with Chekov's distinct absence) and almost the same writing stuff/producers who did TOS also did TAS. TAS is just that, Animated. Which makes little difference to me, as long as it continued the show's premise. Its not like it was something different. It was its continuance.

Whereas none of the other were continuances of TOS. You may argue that stories continued from one series to another, but thats not the point here.

In my account, TAS was and will always remain TOS's continuation. Of course the fact that I haven't seen TAS since three years ago, doesn't quite help the matter, but still..

For me, I'd count it as spinoff, since:

1) It was done several years after the end of the live-action series
2) It was only half an hour long, and:
3) The stories were more simplified and "kid" oriented, with more outrageous premises (The Enterprise crew is shrunk! Spock is cloned lots of times!), more aliens (Arex & M'Ress), less complex characterization, etc.

For me, these are all significant changes, ones that give TAS a different feel than TOS. Too much so to be a continuation in my book.

None of this should be taken as a criticism of TAS, by the way. I have some fond memories of it, despite not having seen it in over a decade. I feel it was a worthwhile additon to the Trek universe & would love to see it released on DVD.

 

[Navaros]

in my view DS9 is most definitely the closest thing to TOS and vice versa

IMO DS9 and TOS are the two Trek shows that had by far the best scripts, the best acting, and the best stories. with DS9 being superior because it ran longer, and had a higher number of master actors. TOS also had master actors, just not as many as DS9.

in my view both DS9 and TOS have captured the essence of teaching lessons about existance far better than the other Trek serieses

 

[Valin]

None of the above.

TNG and ENT came closest to format (Enterprise exploring space), but never "felt" like TOS.

VOY was Lost in Space with a Federation ship.

DS9 was more about domestic relationships and political infighting.

TAS was a cartoon.

 

[USS Star Trek]

This may not be the popular thing to say, but I would say that they each got some part of it right, they all did some things to further the Trek legacy, but none of them really nailed it.

TNG - closest to TOS in the beginning, did some exploratory stuff, got the characterization for the most part okay, but was too PC and "perfect" and utopian unlike TOS. Also had some good sci fi stories.
DS9 - Good characterizations, intelligent stories. Was in some ways a backlash to the perfect TNG utopia that some people say went too far. Unlike TOS, however, this series had heavy continuity between episodes, making it a different beast than the episodic standalone Kirk adventures. But, in it's defense, despite being on a station, DS9 was probably doing more REAL exploration and more in depth than...
VOY - Which was really "out there", beyond the federation limits (though DS9 was it a bit too thanks to the wormhole but not nearly as much), it boldly went where no man or woman had gone before - as the PC people would say - though not by their own choice. Did the TOS-like episodic thing, though maybe not to such a great success. VOY also had that "family feel", it was warmer than some latter era treks. Which brings us to...
ENT - Which was exploring space "when the universe was young", again. It boldly went and all that stuff. More exploration than DS9 and latter era TNG. Things were young again. It was more simple, and primitive, imperfect. Also there was less technobabble than other modern era treks. Plus, there were tie-ins to TOS era aliens and events. This series was probably the one most connected to TOS. Though maybe not the closest in spirit (characters and all that...).

Which did it best? Can't really say. They all did something right, but also several things wrong. If they had been close enough, we probably would not have been were we are now - cancelled shows and an uncertain future for the franchise.

 

[Phantassm]

TNG

 

[Hofner]

Like some people says the different spinoffs does have different aspects of TOS. If you consider TAS a spinoff it's the closest by default let's move beyond that.

Here's an overall feel I get from the shows.

TNG and VOY is like going to a formal dinner where you have to watch what you do very carefully. If you accidentally use the wrong fork they won't say anything but you are excruciatingly aware they noticed all right and mentally shaking their heads at the backwardness of your extremely boorish behavior.

TOS and DS9 is like eating pizza with your friends. You can't accidentally use the wrong fork because you eat pizza with your hands. The worse that can happen is you get a big horselaugh when you go to take a bite out of a slice and the toppings slide off into your lap.

Some people like formal dinners and others would rather just eat pizza with their friends.

I can't decide exactly what Enterprise is like in this vein.

Robert

 

[number6]

^^ Some might say that ENT is like eating a steak in front of a vegatarian.

 

[Jonesy]

TAS is closest in spirit as already mentioned, and I also agree that the first season of TNG is closest in spirt to TOS.

DS9 had basically no input from the people who made TOS. (and yes, I do think that is very relevant) TOS, while at times dealing with some fairly complex ideas and issues, almost always had the sense that in the end, everything and everyone was going to be o.k. (the only instance I can think of off the top of my head where this is not true was "City on the Edge of Forever" where Kirk is clearly wounded at the end) DS9 was a fairly bleak show, particularly towards the final few years, and had many shows where things weren't necessarily peachy-keen by the end credits (or somewhere in between a six-parter )

I'm currently viewing through DS9 and most of the season 5 episodes I've watched over the last few days are about war, battles (hand-to-hand or ship-to-ship), loss of human life, war, deceit, treachery, abduction, terrorism, ect ect. So I don't really agree that "in spirit" DS9 is closest to TOS. TOS generally returned to the status quo, complete with a little cute exchange between the big three before the end credits. The "spirit" of TOS was indeed that humanity had yet to deal with all of their issues, but as far as making social commentary, they typically stuck that to the alien/alien race/planet of the week - just like TNG almost always did. We didn't hear much of anything about social issues or other problems on Earth during TOS. Spock would make commentary about humans, but when he wasn't making comments about Kirk or McCoy's (usually harmless) human emotions he was usually talking about humanity in a past tense. (a comment that usually had something relevant to Earth in the 1960's)

While many still like to make comments about TNG's "perfect" characters, I still maintain the TNG season 1 and 2 are in so many ways a different show than TNG season 3 through 7.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Posted by Number6:
^^ Some might say that ENT is like eating a steak in front of a vegatarian.

I would say that that it was usually more akin to trying to pass tofu off as filet mignon.

 

[CaptJimboJones]

Enteprise in a heartbeat. Like TOS, it had characters that were actually interesting, unlike the cardboard cutouts form TNG/DS9/VOY.