No one knows whether they have or haven't.9 months have passed since Prime Discovery was in that universe.
Where is PU Lorca
- Thread starter Snarfies
- Start date
OK, of he was caught later, that might explain it (although it would be still somewhat convoluted). Looking forward to the book.
My thought is Lorca Prime went into hiding.
Which is a good idea for anyone beaming into an alternate universe where they’re an enemy of the state.
Which is a good idea for anyone beaming into an alternate universe where they’re an enemy of the state.
I don't know if he will ever return or not, but they did establish one thing that will likely be in play if he ever does come back. Cornwall made a point of referring to prime Lorca as Gabriel and mirror Lorca as Lorca. So I think that's the way they'll be known if he ever comes back. Prime Gabriel and Mirror Lorca.
If prime Gabriel did survive in the MU he probably hooked up with the resistance.
If prime Gabriel did survive in the MU he probably hooked up with the resistance.
This is Star Trek.
Of course we'll see Prime Lorca.
Of course we'll see Prime Lorca.
If Prime Lorca is alive and makes it back to the Prime Universe, it seems to me that SF will have to make him the captain of the Discovery in order to keep the existence of the Mirror Universe a secret. I almost said 'reinstate him,' but then remembered that Prime Lorca has never been the Discovery's captain.
This alone shows how idiotically contrived the writing for Disco is. Only a few short years later when Kirk and Co. end up in the Mirror Universe Starfleet puts the whole incident on record and does not hide the existence of the MU anymore. But now it's made into this big secret. God, this show sucks!
Well, we don't know the fate of PU Lorca yet.
Well, remember, the Terran Empire thought Lorca was still at large, so they certainly never found Lorca Prime. It's hard to say how much you can trust that, since the Emperor revealed that Mirror Burnham being killed by Lorca was misinformation (though misinformation covering what, exactly, I can't say. Clearly the Emperor didn't have any incontrovertible proof her Michael died), but I imagine if they had the slightest inclination that they could get away with saying Lorca was definitely dead, knowing he'd never show up again, they'd say so to demoralize his followers. They'd only go along with the idea he was on the run if they thought he actually was out there.
Based on the fact that their clothes didn't switch universes in "Mirror, Mirror," I'd assumed that transposition was a body-swap, and only their minds crossed universes. MU Lorca still having agonizer and dagger scars rules that out, but we could still fanwank that only living material is transposed. Slim odds that the two Lorcas would be standing exactly the same way, but we know transporters can change a person's pose when beamed, so maybe the computer just automatically tugged everything in place so the Lorcas weren't melded with their pants when they rematerialized.
I wouldn't describe "about a century" as "a few short years." The first we heard of people knowing about Kirk's trip to the Mirror Universe was from Dr. Bashir in "Crossover," and while he said he learned about "Mirror, Mirror" at the Academy, Kira is the one who brings up Kirk, so we have no way of knowing if that's the first place his mind would've gone if he'd gotten some other clue about where they were. He doesn't go into detail about the curriculum for that class, so there's no reason to think he didn't learn about that right alongside the story of Discovery's since-declassified crossover. But aside from that, there's no indication if or for how long the Mirror Universe was kept secret. Maybe it was the headline news across the Federation the minute Kirk and the landing party got back to their Enterprise. Maybe Bashir was part of the very first class of Starfleet cadets to learn about it, when the hundred-year mark ticked over and Kirk's complete logs from that era were declassified, but there's no canon evidence leaning towards either of those extreme possibilities.
Based on the fact that their clothes didn't switch universes in "Mirror, Mirror," I'd assumed that transposition was a body-swap, and only their minds crossed universes. MU Lorca still having agonizer and dagger scars rules that out, but we could still fanwank that only living material is transposed. Slim odds that the two Lorcas would be standing exactly the same way, but we know transporters can change a person's pose when beamed, so maybe the computer just automatically tugged everything in place so the Lorcas weren't melded with their pants when they rematerialized.
The part revealing Lorca's survival is intentionally incredibly vague. It doesn't specifically name Lorca (but it's all but certain it's him, thanks to a callback to earlier in the book), it doesn't say where he is (except in a prison cell with a forcefield), and it doesn't say who is holding him (except that they are more brutal than any Starfleet wardens, killing prisoners for sport, and they're masked so we're not even sure what species they are, never mind if they're from the Empire, or Lorca's faction, or some other group).
I wouldn't describe "about a century" as "a few short years." The first we heard of people knowing about Kirk's trip to the Mirror Universe was from Dr. Bashir in "Crossover," and while he said he learned about "Mirror, Mirror" at the Academy, Kira is the one who brings up Kirk, so we have no way of knowing if that's the first place his mind would've gone if he'd gotten some other clue about where they were. He doesn't go into detail about the curriculum for that class, so there's no reason to think he didn't learn about that right alongside the story of Discovery's since-declassified crossover. But aside from that, there's no indication if or for how long the Mirror Universe was kept secret. Maybe it was the headline news across the Federation the minute Kirk and the landing party got back to their Enterprise. Maybe Bashir was part of the very first class of Starfleet cadets to learn about it, when the hundred-year mark ticked over and Kirk's complete logs from that era were declassified, but there's no canon evidence leaning towards either of those extreme possibilities.
Admiral Cornwell did say they Lorca she knew was reasonable and measured. If he somehow survived the destruction of the ISS Buran (escape pod? Shuttle?), and was captured by the rebels (vulcans, andorians, tellarites, klingons, etc), he could still be alive if he found a way to Picard himself out of an execution. Maybe the rebels are working with/using PU Lorca in their fight against the Terran Empire, not realizing they have the Lorca from a different universe.
What the motive or practical benefit behind such an arrangement is anyones guess. I dont want to speculate unless CBS hires me to write for the show
I say CBS should just employ the Trek BBS to write Season 2.
That would be a magnificent spectacle. One way or the other.
What the motive or practical benefit behind such an arrangement is anyones guess. I dont want to speculate unless CBS hires me to write for the show
I say CBS should just employ the Trek BBS to write Season 2.That would be a magnificent spectacle. One way or the other.
This is what IMO happened. Starfleet intelligence knew a fair bit about the general direction of PU future events (up to the disappearance of the Defiant anyway) since they'll have learnt from Discovery that the Defiant crossover was going to happen. Thus the MU had to stay secret up to a certain point - I'm guessing even the redacted Defiant logs told them approximately when the MU had to remain secret until (or, if they are less nice, some "interrogation" of Emperor Georgiou at some point tells them stuff from the unredacted logs). But my best guess is that around the time Kirk and co's crossover is the point at which it becomes "safe" to declassify information about the MU.
(Caveat - I can't remember exact order of TOS episodes and when the Defiant "phasing in and out" problems happen in the PU - if that was after Kirk & co's MU experience then it pushes back the point at which it becomes "safe" to declassify MU info, but in any case we're talking around that time). That's the "safest" time to declassify since there's no further information about the PU future that any nefarious individual can use - the Defiant logs cease to have military value and can now "be entered into the history books".
OK, that makes sense, although I still don´t expect it being ever followed.
I like to think that Prime Lorca is somewhere manipulating Mirror Burnham (probably pretending to be Mirror Lorca) into finding a way into his original universe. They'll both show up when the show allocates money for Isaacs again.
He's being held in Azkaban Prison by the Dementors for abandoning the Dark Lord. He's totally stopped dying his hair and is letting it grow wild too. Like Connery in The Rock wild.
If we get a Nicholas Cage cameo in Star Trek to save Lorca, I'm all for it.
I see the "brushing past him" to be evidence that he may still be alive.
If the writers wanted him to be positively dead, we would have had more of a positive account of his death. Instead we got something like "he probably died"
A throw-away line like that sounds to me as if the writers left their options open for his return -- either one that is already planned, or they simply left the possibility open to them.
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What facts? They stated answer to:
"What happened to PU Lorca"
was limited to Admiral Cromwell saying:
"From what you've told us about the Terran Empire, no Starfleet officer could survive that universe alone."
That answer to me sounds as if they really don't know for sure if he is dead or alive. Until we are given confirmation that he is dead (rather than just characters guessing that he's dead), then he could be very much alive.
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I still think he was onboard the ISS Discovery when it crossed over (as either a lower decks member doing hard time, or as Captain Killy's servant). I'm hoping season one ends with Disco coming across a lone escape pod containing Killy and Prime Lorca (because, if there was one thing Discovery could improve upon, it would be having TWO Sylvia Tillys 
)
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