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Where does the Bonaventure fit within continuity?

FederationHistorian

Commodore
Commodore
If I've asked this before, apologies in advance.

In TAS, Scotty refers to the Bonaventure as the first vessel to have warp drive installed. However, if that were the case, then that puts it around the time of the Earth-Kzin Wars.

The Earth-Kzin Wars were established to have taken place 200 years before TAS, placing the conflicts between the mid-2050s and late-2060s, and possibly as early as the mid-2040s. And while the first of the wars was fought with sublight vessels, the wars ended when Earth produced warp capable vessels. These conflicts might not have been very long, if there were four of them within that timeframe. And does imply that the Bonaventure did ward off the Kzinti.

The timeline for Earth expeditions into space, and warp capacity is precise. Warp drive is attained in 2063 by Zefram Cochrane, bringing about first contact with Vulcans. SS Valiant is launched in 2065, Friendship One launched in 2067, and the SS Conestoga – a warp capable vessel- was launched in 2069. New Berlin on Luna, Utopia Planitia on Mars, and various colonies on asteroids were established prior to 2069. And Terra Nova, the first colony outside the solar system, is colonized in 2078 nine lightyears from Earth. And warp drive at warp two doesn’t begin until 2119 at the earliest.

In “The Time Trap” the Bonaventure is noted as being trapped in the Delta Triangle for centuries, meaning it disappeared around 2069, give or take several years (non-canon sources place its disappearance in 2079). And it was supposed to be on its third voyage, meaning it likely left Earth a couple of time prior. This places the Delta Triangle at its furthest distance at 15 lightyears away from Earth, although it is likely much closer, and at least 5 lightyears away. For reference, Vulcan is 17 years from Earth, and Andoria is 11 light years from Earth.

Bonaventure was also originally, and semi-canonically, the first warp capable ship before FC retconned it as the Phoenix. And there were two different designs of the Bonaventure, the 10281NCC version featured in TAS, and the C1-21 version featured in DS9 in the classroom of Keiko O’Brien.

TAS Bonaventure

tas-bonaventure.jpg


DS9 Bonaventure
Bonaventure04.gif


This leaves several unanswered questions.

Was there a space race involving the Bonaventure and the Phoenix that revolved around warp drive?

Was the Bonaventure the first vessel given warp technology after the success of the Phoenix? Or was the Bonaventure technically the first to be warp capable, but failed to launch first for undetermined reasons?

Were the Earth-Kzin Wars a series event kept from the public for a long time, like the Eugenics Wars? And possibly a secondary reason the ECON weaponized space to begin with? Or just a series of skirmishes inflated as a war?

What do you think were the reasons that the stardrive section of the Bonaventure was dropped and not revived until around the mid-22nd century?

What the difference between Bonaventure (C1-21) and Bonaventure (10281NCC)? Was the 10281NCC version just a refit of the C1-21? Or do they just share a name?
 
In “The Time Trap” the Bonaventure is noted as being trapped in the Delta Triangle for centuries,

No, the line is (emphasis mine) “Some of them have been here for centuries.” Also, “She was the first ship to have warp drive installed.” It’s one thing to build warp-capable vessels and another to basically take a flying saucer with impulse drive and give it a stardrive section, thus making it probably one of the first frankenships.
 
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What the difference between Bonaventure (C1-21) and Bonaventure (10281NCC)? Was the 10281NCC version just a refit of the C1-21? Or do they just share a name?

Either there are multiple Bonaventures (which is entirely possible) or the DS9 version was a retcon.

It's MORE likely that there was more than one ship with that name, in which case both ships can exist. Although if the DS9 version was a retcon, and the Bonaventure always looked like that, I can live with it.

In fact I'd almost prefer the retcon. The one from TAS looked way too much like a Connie...
 
The one from TAS looked way too much like a Connie...

Well, yes, because it is that recent. Starfleet was building the usual custom classes and then c. 2200 started experimenting with warp drive installation upon impulse saucers. It explains the clunky look and lets the Phoenix shine in history.

The original Bonaventure would’ve followed Cochrane’s first flight as a significant milestone in 2064 (it turns out the initial conjecture of 2061 had a… typo).
 
What the difference between Bonaventure (C1-21) and Bonaventure (10281NCC)? Was the 10281NCC version just a refit of the C1-21? Or do they just share a name?
It's not a canonical answer, but two Memory Alpha articles contain what I think are fascinating descriptions of what went on behind the scenes.

From https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bonaventure_(C1-21):

In the Star Trek Chronology, it was this ship, only identified by its registry "C1-21"', that was credited with the discovery of space warp, which was until the release of Star Trek: First Contact somewhat accepted as "semi-canon". However First Contact firmly established the radically different design of the Phoenix as the first warp capable Earth ship, and all references to the Bonaventure being so were subsequently dropped from later reference works.

The Bonaventure was intended to be a predecessor to the Bonaventure (10281NCC), as confirmed by the creator of the wall display, Doug Drexler; "By the way, 'Bonaventure' was absolutely a nod to the animated show." It was this wall chart that established the name of the ship, as the Chronology had not provided one, only its registry.​

The whole article at https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bonaventure_(C1-21)_model is quite interesting.

Oh, and thanks for bringing the DS9 model to my attention. I hadn't known anything about it.
 
Well, yes, because it is that recent..

A ship which is supposedly the first ever equipped with warp drive? It shouldn't be THAT recent.

Of course TAS aired long before ENT was ever a thing, but even then, it should have been fairly obvious that warp drive had existed for at least a century or more before TOS. Thus, the first ship with warp drive should be at least that old - and should not look that much (if indeed at all) like a Constitution class.

The Bonnie from DS9 looks much more like I'd expect the first warp ship to look. Clunky and primitive. :techman:

Such a hypothesis doesn’t fit the facts of the ship’s appearance.

Since the NX class obviously had warp drive, then the Bonnie (being the first warp ship) must logically be even older. So why would it look NEWER? ;)
 
Such a hypothesis doesn’t fit the facts of the ship’s appearance.
Why not? Yes it's shape echoes the contemporary Constitution, but who says the Connie was the first attempt Starfleet made at that shape? Surface details can be forgiven too, since this is the era where Trek designs can be swapped out at will and the Excelsior has details from the NX. All we can establish is that pre-NX, her top speed would have been warp 1.9.
 
A ship which is supposedly the first ever equipped with warp drive? It shouldn't be THAT recent.

I just explained how it could be diminished in importance next to the Phoenix by making it merely the first ship to be extended with warp drive (start with a saucer, add the stardrive), which also allows it to exist closer in time to the Constitution. It happens to fit the phrase used in TAS: “to have warp drive installed.” This doesn’t mean we don’t need another Bonaventure around 2064, but that would just be the design from the original Chronology and DS9.

who says the Connie was the first attempt Starfleet made at that shape?

Says the best reference we have on the subject, namely ENT. You don’t really think they’d let something that clunky and close to TOS exist anywhere near the hundred years between the Phoenix and Enterprise? The spirit of the canon demands the second Bonaventure be some kind of a background kludge, hence the idea that it was merely a testbed for the notion of upgrading an impulse saucer with off-the-shelf stardrive, similar to the kind of “kitbashing” we’d see two centuries later.
 
What is in Trek hasn't been what we expected of Trek for a very long time...

It’s hardly controversial that neither ENT nor DSC nor the KT would take that design as-is and just slot it somewhere early. The ship would be redesigned if someone really wanted to use that name, and then we’d be saying there were in fact three Bonaventures.
 
Then there was Rick’s version, and the one with the secondary hull running through the saucer, so that’s four different depictions. I say the DS9 was the first…Rick’s second….TAS third (rescued) then the Ships of the Line last. Too bad it wasn’t named Bonneville…then you can say each is a warp testbed for each generation of warp drive…each the first of its kind.

So I say keep all the art and retcon the name.
 
The TAS Bonaventure doesn't fit anywhere at least not as described, the design fits as a 23rd century ship, the "first to have warp drive installed" part? No, forget it.

The DS9 version could easily be an early ship build relatively shortly after the Phoenix.
 
The TAS Bonaventure doesn't fit anywhere at least not as described, the design fits as a 23rd century ship, the "first to have warp drive installed" part? No, forget it.

The DS9 version could easily be an early ship build relatively shortly after the Phoenix.
Okay, I'll take a stab at it, now. The older ship (Bonaventure C1-21) used a warp engine (similar to the prototype engine in the Phoenix that was the first ship at space warp). The SS Valiant was probably similar to this Bonaventure. Over the next 170 years or so, many warp improvements (including the warp five engine) were made and put together on ships, but for some reason they didn't call their drive system a "warp drive". Somewhere around the 2230's, the first use of the term "warp drive" system was installed on the Bonaventure 10281NCC, which features "breaking the time barrier" to achieve higher warp speeds above warp 6. YMMV :).

(Note: I did a word search on all seasons of ENT, the term "warp drive" was not normally used in reference to 2150 era Earthen ships by Humans, mostly T'Pol and other aliens talk about warp drive on the ship. It looks like Humans and Vulcans/aliens may have a slight different definition for warp drive. Trip's first uses the term "warp drive" on the NX-01 (in Precious Cargo, season 2) was after one and half years hanging out with T'Pol and her constant use of the "warp drive" term on the NX-01. It took Archer to near the end of season 3 (in Damage) to use the term once about the NX-01 while talking to an alien; he may have been using terminology familiar to them. In Daedalus, Emory uses the term "warp drive" like a technology that hasn't been fully achieved, yet. In In A Mirror, Darkly Part 2, they talked about the warp drive on the Defiant (era 2230+), only. In TNG First Contact, only the 24th century humans refer to Cochrane's discovery as "warp drive", he doesn't. Even 23rd century Kirk doesn't; he says he invented the "space warp". Interesting thing about language over two centuries plus associations with many alien races. :vulcan:)
 
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Broad strokes. Some things like throwaway lines need to be ignored. Apply retcons that make sense.

Zephram Chocrane's "Phoenix" was the first warp capable spacecraft produced on Earth.

Since the DS-9 model was only seen in background, and nothing was mentioned on-screen and it wasn't integral to any plot, we can accept this model is a depiction of a warp capable ship built after "Phoenix's" famous flight but before the NX program.

The Enterprise NX-01 was the first Earth ship with a Warp-5 propulsion system.

The Man-Kzin Wars were a series of border skirmishes between Earth colonies and Kzin fought around the transition period from before there was a UFP to after. Some of these "wars" may have lasted only weeks or months, similar to the Falkands War or the First Iraq War in Earth's late 20th and early 21st centuries.

The Bonaventure type was a class of ship that pre-dated the Constitution Class. The USS Bonaventure was lost the Delta Triangle. The USS Constellation NCC 1017 was the same class as the Bonaventure. This is evident by the Constellation's registry number NCC 1017. The NCC coming after the 10281 on the Bonaventure depiction should be assumed to be a mistake in the artist rendering. The actual vessel was NCC 10281. Or it's NCC 1028 and what appears to be a trailing 1 is really a component on the nacelle like a greeble or something.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

Such a hypothesis doesn’t fit the facts of the ship’s appearance.

Appearance on an animated production with stylized artwork. In real life M'Ress probably looked furrier. And we know those uniform badges weren't as angular. We have to allow for artistic liberties in the medium.
 
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