Where do Newbies Start?

[Vger23]

1) Thread drift happens. Get over it.
2) Opinion. Everyone has one. Get over it.
3) See 2.
4) "It's all there" implies that there is no more to Khan's motivation. The existence of Space Seed, whether you've seen it or not, is vivid proof of the opposite being true, as an absolute. And, people chime in on conversations here all the time. Get used to it.

I understand thread drift. It doesn't change the irrelevance of your post.

I don't need you to explain to me how a message board works. Repeating "get over it" over and over again is defensive and unnecessary. I challenged your post, but it wasn't personal. If it felt personal, that's on you I'm afraid.

Regardless of your opinion (and indeed everyone does have them, which just goes to show how valueless they are), my own experience indicates that your position is inaccurate.

So not only was your post irrelevant to the primary topic, irrelevant to my response (that was not directed at you) and inaccurate to my experiences (I had no problem whatsoever understanding Khan's "motivations," nor has anyone I've ever shared the experience of the film with as their first exposure to the franchise)...for some reason you got chagrined as well.

I'm not in any way arguing that the experience of watching TWOK wouldn't potentially be ENHANCED by having seen Space Seed first. I'm arguing that not seeing it in no way deminishes the effectiveness of TWOK as an entry point for Trek virgins.

Which was the point of my posts. And the point of this thread.

Now, is there anything else we need to discuss to satisfy our need to defend (unintentionally) bruised egos, or are we quite finished? "Get over it" indeed.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

You don't need to understand the invention of fire to appreciate human history, and certainly you can start almost anywhere in Trek and get a sense of what it's all about.

That said, I think the best thing for the OP to do is just show the friend the pilots for the five pre-Discovery series as samplers. It will give her an idea of what each is about, and allow her to decide what direction to go in.

 

[1001001]

1) Thread drift happens. Get over it.
2) Opinion. Everyone has one. Get over it.
3) See 2.
4) "It's all there" implies that there is no more to Khan's motivation. The existence of Space Seed, whether you've seen it or not, is vivid proof of the opposite being true, as an absolute. And, people chime in on conversations here all the time. Get used to it.

You're coming across as awfully hostile. And most of the time someone declares their opinion as "absolute", they're on shaky ground.

Everyone, please leave the personal stuff out of it.

Thanks

 

[BillJ]

I don't recall Khan ever mentioning either Marla's name or that he had a wife in the movie. All he said was "... as you left me... as you left her... buried alive..."

When he captures Terrell and Chekov on Ceti Alpha V...

KHAN: You didn't expect to find me. You thought this was Ceti Alpha Six! Why are you here? ...Why are you here? ...Why? ...Allow me introduce you to Ceti Alpha Five's only remaining indigenous lifeform. ...What do you think? They've killed twenty of my people, including my beloved wife. ...Oh, not all at once, ...and not ...instantly, to be sure. ...You see, their young enter through the ears ...and wrap themselves around the cerebral cortex. This has the effect of rendering the victim extremely susceptible to suggestion. Later, ...they grow, ...follows madness. ...And death.

Terrell also mentions "his wife" later...

TERRELL: Marooned on Ceti Alpha Five. He's completely mad, Admiral. He blames you for the death of his wife.

http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie2.html

 

[Kor]

The bond between beloved spouses is very powerful. When I watch TWOK, Khan's anger, pain and loss come through quite clearly even though the movie itself doesn't give any background on Marla.

And I, too, watched TWOK many times before I ever saw "Space Seed." In fact, "Space Seed" itself does not give me any indication whatsoever that Marla is actually "beloved" to Khan. She's just something for him to "take" in his conceited, power-mad lust for conquest; a sheepish, groveling and servile follower for him to manipulate and exert control over in his sheer arrogance.

Kor

 

[Timewalker]

The bond between beloved spouses is very powerful. When I watch TWOK, Khan's anger, pain and loss come through quite clearly even though the movie itself doesn't give any background on Marla.

And I, too, watched TWOK many times before I ever saw "Space Seed." In fact, "Space Seed" itself does not give me any indication whatsoever that Marla is actually "beloved" to Khan. She's just something for him to "take" in his conceited, power-mad lust for conquest; a sheepish, groveling and servile follower for him to manipulate and exert control over in his sheer arrogance.

Kor

I don't disagree that it was disgusting to see her literally grovel on her knees and beg him to allow her to stay with him.

 

[Astra]

Just to give a female opinion... all I know is this: Whenever they happened to do a night with all the old Star Trek movies on TV and I randomly zapped into one (without actually being interested in sci-fi at the time I want to add) just to see what all the fuss was about I couldn't really get into these kinda old men (yes, I know how shallow that sounds).

I tried again years later with the Kelvin movies and felt that now I was too old to get into these young men...

But once I decided to start properly at the beginning with TOS I fell in love with the young fresh-faced Kirk within minutes Episodic TV worked much better for me than the movies.

Then later coming back to the movies they had much more meaning to me, as I got the sense of how it must have been at the time - fans being happy that their beloved characters were re-united. And for the actors as well, having the chance to work with each other again. So, the plot did become less important to me than the characters and their interactions.

So, in the end it comes to this, whether young Kirk is her type or not.

My only exposure to Shatner before that had been Boston Legal. Took me quite a while to overlap these two opposite Shatners in my mind. And yes, I guess it is crazy to fall for a guy 50 years later when in real life he could be your grandfather. The magic of TV where they stay young forever.

 

[KlingonCereal]

I think arguably starting with The Next Generation is your best bet. It's a fairly beloved show both by Trekkies and non-trek fans alike. Personally, I think The Measure of a Man in Season 2 is a great episode to show to people new to series. This is for a few reasons:

1. Character development pretty much stands on its own in this episode (Such as Data being an android).
   
2. It touches on a good bit of political commentary, which is also a big attraction for fans of the series.
3. Riker is placed in a fairly tough position and I think this can cause the viewer to reflect on similar positions of difficulty in their own lives, drawing a better connection with the show.
   
4. It has Whoopi Goldberg.

I'm sure there are other episodes people would use to introduce the show, but this one personaly stands out for me. Good luck! And I hope to see a new Trek fan here in a month or so :P