When [Spoiler] yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler]?
- Thread starter MrJ
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Re: When
I liked most of the movie, but my reaction was embarrassment. I went into cognitive dissonant shock at that moment. No matter what they were going for - I guess anything's possible - I was there with my family and I was, at that point, embarrassed for first time in my recollection to be a Trekkie. They used one of the biggest internet Trek memes known to the public at large, that makes Shatner so laughworthy, in a dramatic moment. Double face palm. And I was embarrassed on behalf of Zachary Quinto for having been forced to do Shatner's schtick.
In fact, the literal references to The Wrath of Kahn, while kinda cool as a Trekkie, completely wiped away all of the emotional impact from Star Trek Into Darkness that I felt at the end of TWOK. I guess the humor comes from laughing AT the writers for thinking they could even think it was dramatic? That moment kinda turned it into Space Balls. Or was it Galaxy Quest?
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I liked most of the movie, but my reaction was embarrassment. I went into cognitive dissonant shock at that moment. No matter what they were going for - I guess anything's possible - I was there with my family and I was, at that point, embarrassed for first time in my recollection to be a Trekkie. They used one of the biggest internet Trek memes known to the public at large, that makes Shatner so laughworthy, in a dramatic moment. Double face palm. And I was embarrassed on behalf of Zachary Quinto for having been forced to do Shatner's schtick.
In fact, the literal references to The Wrath of Kahn, while kinda cool as a Trekkie, completely wiped away all of the emotional impact from Star Trek Into Darkness that I felt at the end of TWOK. I guess the humor comes from laughing AT the writers for thinking they could even think it was dramatic? That moment kinda turned it into Space Balls. Or was it Galaxy Quest?
Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I laughed both times I watched this movie. The first time the theater was like all trekkies and we all laughed. The second time it was pretty much all clueless teenagers who are like whatever and I was the only one who laughed and people were like, huh? I just can't handle it nor take it seriously.
Re: When
I don't think so. I think it really WAS supposed to be dramatic, but all it got out of me the first time I saw it was a light giggle. Two seconds later I thought "wait, they didn't just actually do this ... d'oh".
I still can't watch this scene without my face blushing by embarrasment.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I don't think so. I think it really WAS supposed to be dramatic, but all it got out of me the first time I saw it was a light giggle. Two seconds later I thought "wait, they didn't just actually do this ... d'oh".
I still can't watch this scene without my face blushing by embarrasment.
serenitytrek1
Commander
Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I guess we can all agree that the Khan scream sucked. It wasn't even very Vulanish. It also didn't even make sense, This is the same Spock that had an emotionless face when his mum died and his whole planet got destroyed.
We didn't see Spock scream NEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
I would have loved to see Spock keeping his cool after Kirk's death with an undeniable pain and sadness on his face, only for him to then go and take down Khan.
Next time the writers need to leave all the crying and screaming to people like Scotty, Bones and Uhura.
We didn't see Spock scream NEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
I would have loved to see Spock keeping his cool after Kirk's death with an undeniable pain and sadness on his face, only for him to then go and take down Khan.
Next time the writers need to leave all the crying and screaming to people like Scotty, Bones and Uhura.
Re: When
Humor. It is a difficult concept. It is not logical.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
Humor. It is a difficult concept. It is not logical.
Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I had no issues with it at all. I found it more effective than in the original, actually, as it fit with the overall character arc of Spock in the two films, whereas it was more of an isolated moment in TWOK. YMMV
And at both viewings (packed houses each time) I attended, no one laughed.
And at both viewings (packed houses each time) I attended, no one laughed.
Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
A few people laughed in every screening I attended. I did notice that it was a stricktly generational thing. Only people over the age of 30 laughed, and the younger fans clearly didn't understand why.
I have to say I have become disallusioned with the writers of the film, esp. Orci. His recent rant over at TrekMovie really makes me think less of him, as a writer and a person. Not graciously taking criticism (from whatever the source) is not a good trait, especially someone subject to public criticism.
I have to say I have become disallusioned with the writers of the film, esp. Orci. His recent rant over at TrekMovie really makes me think less of him, as a writer and a person. Not graciously taking criticism (from whatever the source) is not a good trait, especially someone subject to public criticism.
Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
The thing is, that Trek movies aren´t made for the hardcore fans but for the broad public. I´m sure a lot of those who went to see STID never saw TWOK, which is more than 30 years old now. They will probably not have noted the "KHAAAAAAN!!" yell as particularly odd or out of character for Spock (who did lose his temper in the previous movie, too).
I have only seen STID once so far, and without knowing anything about it beforehand (yes, that is still possible in today´s world
), and I neither rolled my eyes at that particular scene, nor at the fact that the entire movie was an alternate take on TWOK. In fact, because of that "remake character" of the whole movie, which is so very obvious to any Trek fan, I actually smiled at that scene and took it as a tip-of-the-hat to TWOK.
Mario
I have only seen STID once so far, and without knowing anything about it beforehand (yes, that is still possible in today´s world
), and I neither rolled my eyes at that particular scene, nor at the fact that the entire movie was an alternate take on TWOK. In fact, because of that "remake character" of the whole movie, which is so very obvious to any Trek fan, I actually smiled at that scene and took it as a tip-of-the-hat to TWOK.Mario
Re: When
But the scream has become comical in the mainstream. Family Guy routinely makes fun of it. It's appeared elsewhere in a similar vein. So, those people who haven't see TWOK will wonder why they would throw in a decidedly kitsch scene in an otherwise somber moment.
As others here have said, I also wince when I see Quinto's scream. It's out of character and destroys the scene. What would have made the scene MUCH more effective and continuous would have been for Spock to visibly wrestle with his emotions, grit his teeth, and mutter "Khan....!" under his breath. After that, he storms off to the bridge. That would have showed greater character complexity, because he isn't filled with out-of-control rage for revenge. Instead, it shows that he's using his cold, calculated logic to channel his emotions into a good, old fashioned, ass-whooping on the surface. He becomes much more frightening and menacing that way, because he has to become Khan to defeat Khan.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
But the scream has become comical in the mainstream. Family Guy routinely makes fun of it. It's appeared elsewhere in a similar vein. So, those people who haven't see TWOK will wonder why they would throw in a decidedly kitsch scene in an otherwise somber moment.
As others here have said, I also wince when I see Quinto's scream. It's out of character and destroys the scene. What would have made the scene MUCH more effective and continuous would have been for Spock to visibly wrestle with his emotions, grit his teeth, and mutter "Khan....!" under his breath. After that, he storms off to the bridge. That would have showed greater character complexity, because he isn't filled with out-of-control rage for revenge. Instead, it shows that he's using his cold, calculated logic to channel his emotions into a good, old fashioned, ass-whooping on the surface. He becomes much more frightening and menacing that way, because he has to become Khan to defeat Khan.
Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I did not like Quinto's delivery of the scream but no, I didn't laugh.
And it ruined nothing, it's 2 seconds in a 2 hour movie.
And it ruined nothing, it's 2 seconds in a 2 hour movie.
Re: When
Except the movie had been building (both films, really) up the idea that Spock was just one more tragic moment away from snapping--and that is what he did. In that one moment, he became unshackled from his controls and let his rage fly. It is that experience that should, logically, allow him to see the advantages of the Vulcan way after some reflection upon all the events in the two films. It should allow him to attain a balance between his two halves much earlier than in the original version.
Now, if the next film has him raging again, then they will have wasted a good amount of character development. But I'm willing to wait and see.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
Except the movie had been building (both films, really) up the idea that Spock was just one more tragic moment away from snapping--and that is what he did. In that one moment, he became unshackled from his controls and let his rage fly. It is that experience that should, logically, allow him to see the advantages of the Vulcan way after some reflection upon all the events in the two films. It should allow him to attain a balance between his two halves much earlier than in the original version.
Now, if the next film has him raging again, then they will have wasted a good amount of character development. But I'm willing to wait and see.
Re: When
That's just a repeat of the first film, though, making Spock "emotionally-compromised". Boring. The better character arc should have shown that Spock has learned to control his response, just as Kirk learned something. That way, we would have seen Spock "emotionally-compromised" in the same way as Prime Spock from the first film.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
That's just a repeat of the first film, though, making Spock "emotionally-compromised". Boring. The better character arc should have shown that Spock has learned to control his response, just as Kirk learned something. That way, we would have seen Spock "emotionally-compromised" in the same way as Prime Spock from the first film.
Re: When
I've actually become disillusioned with those who claim to be "fans". I think there comes a point in time where something you've obviously love and have worked on gets shit on by cranky fans that you'll eventually lash out.
There's honest criticism then there's abuse. The "fans" think they have a right to abuse these people through the internet because they don't like the stories being told. We've got a poster here (just an example) who said he was going to be physically ill because J.J. Abrams was going to be working on a film in his country. Really?
People need to grow the fuck up. I wouldn't like it if TPTB turned Trek into a Will Farrell/Jack Black buddy comedy. But I wouldn't sit there and hammer on the creators non-stop for five years because of it. I'd simply move onto something I did want to watch.
YMMV.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I've actually become disillusioned with those who claim to be "fans". I think there comes a point in time where something you've obviously love and have worked on gets shit on by cranky fans that you'll eventually lash out.
There's honest criticism then there's abuse. The "fans" think they have a right to abuse these people through the internet because they don't like the stories being told. We've got a poster here (just an example) who said he was going to be physically ill because J.J. Abrams was going to be working on a film in his country. Really?
People need to grow the fuck up. I wouldn't like it if TPTB turned Trek into a Will Farrell/Jack Black buddy comedy. But I wouldn't sit there and hammer on the creators non-stop for five years because of it. I'd simply move onto something I did want to watch.
YMMV.
Re: When
I like Spock, but I also like Abrams version of the character. A great "What If?" is "What if Spock snapped?" and we're getting to explore that angle in a way TOS and the movies never could. The new Spock is traveling a road that Spock Prime never did to any extent.
I've been saying since 2009 that I want new Spock to be the villain of the third film. It's would be an interesting twist to watch the man descend into chaos and never make it back.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I like Spock, but I also like Abrams version of the character. A great "What If?" is "What if Spock snapped?" and we're getting to explore that angle in a way TOS and the movies never could. The new Spock is traveling a road that Spock Prime never did to any extent.
I've been saying since 2009 that I want new Spock to be the villain of the third film. It's would be an interesting twist to watch the man descend into chaos and never make it back.
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