Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
When [Spoiler] yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler]?
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Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I didn't find the scene funny at all. It was a gutsy move to put it in the movie and it worked for me.
There was a thread a while ago with people stating they find the KHAAAAAAN scene in TWOK funny, especially the way Shatner contorts his face. I disagree with that too. While not a big TWOK fan I loved that scene, a classic moment, and I liked it in STiD too.
There was a thread a while ago with people stating they find the KHAAAAAAN scene in TWOK funny, especially the way Shatner contorts his face. I disagree with that too. While not a big TWOK fan I loved that scene, a classic moment, and I liked it in STiD too.
Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
Re: When
You do know that Star Trek is entertainment and discussing it is suppose to be fun?
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
You do know that Star Trek is entertainment and discussing it is suppose to be fun?
Re: When
That was a "fun" eye-roll, don't worry.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
You do know that Star Trek is entertainment and discussing it is suppose to be fun?
That was a "fun" eye-roll, don't worry.
Re: When
Just to get this straight, if one believes another's post is worthy of an eye roll, even my own posts for example, one is not having fun as a Star Trek fan? Do I have that right? Should we not be here, just not post, or ignore it completely? Just checking, Bill.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
You do know that Star Trek is entertainment and discussing it is suppose to be fun?
Just to get this straight, if one believes another's post is worthy of an eye roll, even my own posts for example, one is not having fun as a Star Trek fan? Do I have that right? Should we not be here, just not post, or ignore it completely? Just checking, Bill.
Wow - so you haven't been a Trekkie for long then, right?
I remember sitting with friends and SQUIRMING majorly on the couch MANY times at Avery Brooks' ridiculous overacting and very strange sense stressing on words.
One time a friend actually turned to me and asked, "What the fuck is this guy's deal"
I had no answer.
Why should they?
Clueless Hollywood execs keep giving them more and more wok - Hell practically every bloody project I hear about has at least one of these douchebags attached to it! No wonder they think their shit doesn't stink!
Irony is, their stories and scripts are AWFUL, from Prometheus to STID - it's all lowest common denominator bullshit.
And yes, I know it was Lindeloff who came in and re-wrote Prom. - I just think of all of these dickheads being the same person, because all of their rubbish sucks and I can't be bothered trying to distinguish them.
My thought to.
There's over-thinking and then there's OOOOOOOVEEEEERRRRR-THINKING!!!!!!!!!
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Re: When
So he's like the dog in Up who constantly yells "SQUIRREL!" when he senses one nearby? And the only reason he didn't scream "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaan!" on Kronos when Khan was nearby was because Uhura had scolded him and put him in the quiet corner during their trip there? No offense, but that's pretty silly and overthinking things in the extreme.
He was pissed at Khan for killing his captain and new friend. He was pissed at Khan for killing his mentor, former captain, and friend, Pike. He was pissed at Khan for nearly destroying his ship and killing/injuring lots of his fellow crew members. He was pissed at Khan for putting his girlfriend's life in danger. He was still harboring deep anger and resentment over the destruction of his homeworld, the genocide of his people, and the death of his mother. He was confronted with a faction of Starfleet and a trusted admiral who just betrayed all of the Federation's principles and tried to kill their own people (his crew again) and start a war under false pretenses. He's an outcast among his own people for being too human and an outcast among humans for being too Vulcan.
He has a hundred reasons to be legitimately enraged at his situation, and thanks to his Vulcan upbringing, he's been taught to bottle those feelings up inside and keep them to himself, despite his human side making that more difficult and unnatural. His scream of "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!" was simply a release of all that accumulated rage and despair from what he had gone through over the past year and during the past couple of harrowing days.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
So he's like the dog in Up who constantly yells "SQUIRREL!" when he senses one nearby? And the only reason he didn't scream "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaan!" on Kronos when Khan was nearby was because Uhura had scolded him and put him in the quiet corner during their trip there? No offense, but that's pretty silly and overthinking things in the extreme.
He was pissed at Khan for killing his captain and new friend. He was pissed at Khan for killing his mentor, former captain, and friend, Pike. He was pissed at Khan for nearly destroying his ship and killing/injuring lots of his fellow crew members. He was pissed at Khan for putting his girlfriend's life in danger. He was still harboring deep anger and resentment over the destruction of his homeworld, the genocide of his people, and the death of his mother. He was confronted with a faction of Starfleet and a trusted admiral who just betrayed all of the Federation's principles and tried to kill their own people (his crew again) and start a war under false pretenses. He's an outcast among his own people for being too human and an outcast among humans for being too Vulcan.
He has a hundred reasons to be legitimately enraged at his situation, and thanks to his Vulcan upbringing, he's been taught to bottle those feelings up inside and keep them to himself, despite his human side making that more difficult and unnatural. His scream of "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!" was simply a release of all that accumulated rage and despair from what he had gone through over the past year and during the past couple of harrowing days.
Re: When
] to respond to several posts at once. I'll fix these for you.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
Please don't post more than twice in a row in a given thread; use Multi-Quote [
Re: When
If so, the writer's handled it poorly and failed to remind us of all that, so we laughed - perhaps nervously. Kind of like when someone says something embarrassing in public and no one around is sure how to react.
But really, Spock didn't do the infamous Kirk meme for any of those reasons. Quinto did it because one or more of the writers simply thought it would be a cool reference to TWOK. Not really, in the minds of many, and we are incredulous that they thought it was a good idea and that it actually made it past the final cut.
I wouldn't be surprised if a stagehand said in an interview, "Yeah man, Quinto, like, did that as a joke, and the director was all, like, 'Keep it!'"
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
If so, the writer's handled it poorly and failed to remind us of all that, so we laughed - perhaps nervously. Kind of like when someone says something embarrassing in public and no one around is sure how to react.
But really, Spock didn't do the infamous Kirk meme for any of those reasons. Quinto did it because one or more of the writers simply thought it would be a cool reference to TWOK. Not really, in the minds of many, and we are incredulous that they thought it was a good idea and that it actually made it past the final cut.
I wouldn't be surprised if a stagehand said in an interview, "Yeah man, Quinto, like, did that as a joke, and the director was all, like, 'Keep it!'"
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Re: When
The scene worked just fine (the connection to the broader Spock character arc was not difficult to see)--actually better than Kirk's scream in TWOK. It had a more plausible contextual background (as Locutus of Bored has succinctly pointed out) than the original and it made more sense, within the story, than Kirk's. That there may have been other reasons for its inclusion by the writers does not obviate its contextual resonance. Of course the moment may not have resonated with everyone as the filmmakers intended--that's hardly particular to a Trek movie. But even if one finds the execution of the scene to be less than satisfactory, it is rather disingenuous to suggest that there was no other reason to include it than as a "callback" to TWOK.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
The scene worked just fine (the connection to the broader Spock character arc was not difficult to see)--actually better than Kirk's scream in TWOK. It had a more plausible contextual background (as Locutus of Bored has succinctly pointed out) than the original and it made more sense, within the story, than Kirk's. That there may have been other reasons for its inclusion by the writers does not obviate its contextual resonance. Of course the moment may not have resonated with everyone as the filmmakers intended--that's hardly particular to a Trek movie. But even if one finds the execution of the scene to be less than satisfactory, it is rather disingenuous to suggest that there was no other reason to include it than as a "callback" to TWOK.
Re: When
Where were you for the rest of the movie when we were both reminded of what Spock went through in the prior film and Khan smack talking Spock because of his pacifist nature?
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
Where were you for the rest of the movie when we were both reminded of what Spock went through in the prior film and Khan smack talking Spock because of his pacifist nature?
Re: When
I like how you use "we" to attempt to establish that yours was somehow a universal reaction to that scene despite others telling you that's not the case.
You're entitled to your opinion that they handled that poorly, but you are factually wrong in saying that there was no reminder/indicator of those issues affecting Spock's demeanor. They were mentioned and/or shown. I thought the build-up to the scene throughout the film reminded us of all those issues quite nicely, and there was no confusion on my part about his motivation.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I like how you use "we" to attempt to establish that yours was somehow a universal reaction to that scene despite others telling you that's not the case.
You're entitled to your opinion that they handled that poorly, but you are factually wrong in saying that there was no reminder/indicator of those issues affecting Spock's demeanor. They were mentioned and/or shown. I thought the build-up to the scene throughout the film reminded us of all those issues quite nicely, and there was no confusion on my part about his motivation.
I'm also amused by how you switch between using in-universe characters and real world people as if they have interchangeable motives for their actions. Let's say your assumptions about why the writers chose to use the Khan yell are accurate; how does that negate what Spock the character's motivations (which I listed) for the scream might be?
I highly doubt that's what happened (I'm sure it's in the script), but wouldn't that negate your whole complaint about it being a cheap ploy by the writers then? Be consistent.
Re: When
I'm glad, and impressed, you noticed the switch-up. It was indeed to illustrate my thought that it was not about in-universe character, but about the real-world writers being too over-the-top clever with one-too-many TWOK references. Argument about character at that point wouldn't matter. It becomes rationalization. You know how the nit-pickers guides say "the door read the script?" Quinto read the script.
(That was a joke about Quinto's doing it as a joke. I tried to make that clear with the Valley Girl speech).
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I'm glad, and impressed, you noticed the switch-up. It was indeed to illustrate my thought that it was not about in-universe character, but about the real-world writers being too over-the-top clever with one-too-many TWOK references. Argument about character at that point wouldn't matter. It becomes rationalization. You know how the nit-pickers guides say "the door read the script?" Quinto read the script.
(That was a joke about Quinto's doing it as a joke. I tried to make that clear with the Valley Girl speech).
Re: When
Exactly. The writers were on a serious fan-wank with this movie. Trying to justify it as cinematic genius is simply inane. It was what it was: trying to re-create / copy / "pay homage" to TWOK, while attempting to "switch it up" and shock us by reversing the roles. Wow. Whatever course in film school taught that as a conflict generator was pretty one-dimensional (or, not to blame the course, the students who took the course didn't pay attention to the fine details).
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
Exactly. The writers were on a serious fan-wank with this movie. Trying to justify it as cinematic genius is simply inane. It was what it was: trying to re-create / copy / "pay homage" to TWOK, while attempting to "switch it up" and shock us by reversing the roles. Wow. Whatever course in film school taught that as a conflict generator was pretty one-dimensional (or, not to blame the course, the students who took the course didn't pay attention to the fine details).
Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
I have no idea what that means, but then I never really bothered with the Nitpicker's Guides.
Re: When
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
It's a reference to a dramatic moment when, as a character is standing by a door, it doesn't 'whoosh' open until just the right moment before a character leaves a room despite that it probably should have beforehand.
But if you've spent too much time in those 'Nitpicker's Guides', your mind can get a bit sullied. Trek ain't perfect. Sometimes it's best to ignore it and enjoy...
But if you've spent too much time in those 'Nitpicker's Guides', your mind can get a bit sullied. Trek ain't perfect. Sometimes it's best to ignore it and enjoy...
Re: When
It's a reference to a dramatic moment that has none of the dramatic build-up to the original dramatic moment.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
It's a reference to a dramatic moment that has none of the dramatic build-up to the original dramatic moment.
Re: When
Good thing no one was trying to call it "cinematic genius" then, huh? How does one even make the leap from us saying that there was ample set-up and emotional motivation for the scream to pretending we're calling it genius?
That's almost as bad as taking a segment of someone's post completely out of context to get in a dig about something he wasn't even talking about. Speaking of which...
You know the Khan scream is not what he was talking about there. Stop it.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
Good thing no one was trying to call it "cinematic genius" then, huh? How does one even make the leap from us saying that there was ample set-up and emotional motivation for the scream to pretending we're calling it genius?
That's almost as bad as taking a segment of someone's post completely out of context to get in a dig about something he wasn't even talking about. Speaking of which...
You know the Khan scream is not what he was talking about there. Stop it.
Re: When
Because as they say: a rose, by any other name....
Trying to justify the motivation for and execution of a line that comes from a character who shouldn't have that kind of reaction is a huge stretch. Furthermore, it was unrealistic. How many people, in the real world, scream the name of an opponent when they play their hand? It's unrealistic and dumb. If Spock has just *SCREAMED*, to show that he'd gone off the deep end, that would have been more believable and original.
Kirk's response in TWOK was, at the very least, a way of trying to trick Khan into thinking he'd "won." It was *supposed* to be over-acting. There was a method to the madness. The writers of STiD missed that in-the-face subtlety. But then again, these are the same writers who had the Vengeance pounding the crap out of the Enterprise on Earth's front porch, with no forethought to the fact that there might/should be an external defensive response.
yelled "[Spoiler!]" was that suposed to be [Spoiler
Because as they say: a rose, by any other name....
Trying to justify the motivation for and execution of a line that comes from a character who shouldn't have that kind of reaction is a huge stretch. Furthermore, it was unrealistic. How many people, in the real world, scream the name of an opponent when they play their hand? It's unrealistic and dumb. If Spock has just *SCREAMED*, to show that he'd gone off the deep end, that would have been more believable and original.
Kirk's response in TWOK was, at the very least, a way of trying to trick Khan into thinking he'd "won." It was *supposed* to be over-acting. There was a method to the madness. The writers of STiD missed that in-the-face subtlety. But then again, these are the same writers who had the Vengeance pounding the crap out of the Enterprise on Earth's front porch, with no forethought to the fact that there might/should be an external defensive response.
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