When did Trek "jump the shark?"
- Thread starter Warped9
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I think each series had its own JTS moment, however the franchise as a whole? I would think VOY. Voyager eventually merged into what some call "TNG-lite" with many reset buttons and bottle episode after bottle episode. After a while it did seem as they episodes could've been TNG episodes when most fans were expecting something different out of this new series.
Vons
Vons
QFT.But, hey, if THE FINAL FRONTIER didn't kill the franchise, nothing can!
That's your opinion. Everyone I talk to about the movie concetrates on the performances of the cast, and how much of a huge task they had filling the shoes of giants. McCoy always gets the love, followed by Spock. No one mentions the Special Effects, or the 'splosions. That's in a lot of fans minds I believe.
Movie wise I think the franchise went south and never really recovered after TVH. That was just a ridiculous exercise. I actually liked TFF marginally better and then TUC better than that, but for me most of the magic never came back. GEN and the TNG films aren't even worth commenting on.
I'd say it was season seven of TNG, which has all the scripting/technobabble faults of Voyager, but held together because the characters and actors were so established by then. With a new crew who were having to establish themselves on Voyager... they were in trouble.
The exception to this is that I think DS9 started to work in season two and kept on working. But that was almost separate to the rest of the franchise by that point.
The exception to this is that I think DS9 started to work in season two and kept on working. But that was almost separate to the rest of the franchise by that point.
Star Trek '09 is the only reason there still is a Trek franchise.
That's weird. The last time I saw that movie, I couldn't help but think about what a perfect note to end the movie franchise on it would have been (at least for the original series cast). At the same time, I think the Star Trek franchise would suffer a huge loss if the world had been denied the towering, magnificently fantabulous achievement of "Star Trek: First Contact".
I don't think the original series cast needed any other movies after their fourth adventure. The last two had some good moments, but the fourth was the last one that really held together from start to finish.
I would agree if there didn't happen to be a timeless masterpiece of a monumental landmark in the history of the motion picture art form sandwiched between the atrocities of Star Treks 7, 9, and 10. Yes, sometimes objective facts bear a striking resemblance to hyperbole.
That's weird. The last time I saw that movie, I couldn't help but think about what a perfect note to end the movie franchise on it would have been (at least for the original series cast). At the same time, I think the Star Trek franchise would suffer a huge loss if the world had been denied the towering, magnificently fantabulous achievement of "Star Trek: First Contact".
I don't think the original series cast needed any other movies after their fourth adventure. The last two had some good moments, but the fourth was the last one that really held together from start to finish.
I would agree if there didn't happen to be a timeless masterpiece of a monumental landmark in the history of the motion picture art form sandwiched between the atrocities of Star Treks 7, 9, and 10. Yes, sometimes objective facts bear a striking resemblance to hyperbole.
I failed math every time I ever took it, so PLEASE tell me you are referring to First Contact. I'd hate to think anybody likes Insurrection. It would seriously call their sanity into question.
I would say around the time of Season Four of VOY and Insurrection. The latter was a mediocre movie for anyone who doesn't know TNG, unlike FC which worked for non-Trekkers far better, and didn't do well in the box office as a result.
And VOY, despite its problems, still had time at the beginning of its fourth season to turn things around given its proposed seven year run, but instead decided to introduce a ratings-grabbing babe, rather than, you know, improving the writing or anything boring like that. Trek at that point was really running out of ideas, aside from DS9 which was in its own little world, and Seven's catsuit was symbolic of how shallow things had become. This
That said, I think it jumped back with the last couple of years of ENT, but by that time no one outside of fandom cared anymore...
And VOY, despite its problems, still had time at the beginning of its fourth season to turn things around given its proposed seven year run, but instead decided to introduce a ratings-grabbing babe, rather than, you know, improving the writing or anything boring like that. Trek at that point was really running out of ideas, aside from DS9 which was in its own little world, and Seven's catsuit was symbolic of how shallow things had become. This
That said, I think it jumped back with the last couple of years of ENT, but by that time no one outside of fandom cared anymore...
Too Much Fun said:I would agree if there didn't happen to be a timeless masterpiece of a monumental landmark in the history of the motion picture art form sandwiched between the atrocities of Star Treks 7, 9, and 10. Yes, sometimes objective facts bear a striking resemblance to hyperbole.
Yes, 'Star Trek 8' and "Star Trek: First Contact" are indeed one in the same. Sometimes I get sick of typing up the full title because of how much I have to type it around here. It's constantly being criticized and I'm constantly feeling compelled to defend it/sing its praises. For me, Star Trek doesn't get any better than that.
Okay, we obviously have different tastes. To my mind, THE VOYAGE HOME is one of the very best films. And prior to the new movie, it was the definitely the one that appealed most to fans and non-fans alike.
It's hard not to smile while watching that movie . . . . .
L
Lord Garth
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"Jumping the shark" meaning "the point of no return"? Ron Moore and Brannon Braga's falling out in 1999. I might've actually stuck around for a Ron Moore produced ENT, instead of bailing out after four weeks.
After that, as far as I'm concerned, Star Trek's second generation (meaning 1987-2005) had to end and the old guard had to be shown the exit door before the franchise could be revived, which is exactly what ended up happening.
After that, as far as I'm concerned, Star Trek's second generation (meaning 1987-2005) had to end and the old guard had to be shown the exit door before the franchise could be revived, which is exactly what ended up happening.
That's your opinion. If we're talking about the performances, the only ones I thought were worth anything were Pegg's and Quinto's (and Quinto was completely outshined by Nimoy).
Pine was nothing more than a pretty boy. Urban tried way too hard to channel DeForest Kelly. The rest didn't even register with me.
The Fonz jumping a shark is so stupid and far afield from his original character, that the show's having arrived at terrible-ness is unarguable.
I don't see it for Trek as a whole.
DS9 devolving into melodrama fantasy with things called wraiths and a battle of energy bolts between a possessed Jake and [Kira?]. I can't remember, but do remember thinking, "Come on!" Or maybe DS9 jumped at the nadir of an interminable war arc. SO far afield from what the show began as: Bajor based, more political. I feel about DS9 what someone above feels about VOY -- it could have been something FAR greater.
I don't see it for Trek as a whole.
DS9 devolving into melodrama fantasy with things called wraiths and a battle of energy bolts between a possessed Jake and [Kira?]. I can't remember, but do remember thinking, "Come on!" Or maybe DS9 jumped at the nadir of an interminable war arc. SO far afield from what the show began as: Bajor based, more political. I feel about DS9 what someone above feels about VOY -- it could have been something FAR greater.
L
Lord Garth
Guest
Yeah, it's tough, because Star Trek has the habit of jumping and un-jumping. Star Trek also had a split-personality in the '90s.
The thing is, "humping the shark" has such a variety of meanings for people. Fonzie jumping the shark was meant to show how cool he was, but it ended up making his character ridiculous.
When fourth season Enterprise decided to appease the fans who wanted the cool Vulcans by turning Vulcan logic into a religion that was reformed by finding the original scriptures (in Archer's brain
)....Yup, that's making everything ridiculous in an effort to be supercool.
Coto turned Trek into a stinking corpse. And, no, the movie didn't revive it. The emotional heart of the the movie should have been how Kirk and Spock became friends. Because old Spock told young Spock to, left the movie heartless. Since it was already brainless, it is a stillbirth. There aren't signs of life, those are just FX.
When fourth season Enterprise decided to appease the fans who wanted the cool Vulcans by turning Vulcan logic into a religion that was reformed by finding the original scriptures (in Archer's brain
)....Yup, that's making everything ridiculous in an effort to be supercool. Coto turned Trek into a stinking corpse. And, no, the movie didn't revive it. The emotional heart of the the movie should have been how Kirk and Spock became friends. Because old Spock told young Spock to, left the movie heartless. Since it was already brainless, it is a stillbirth. There aren't signs of life, those are just FX.
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