Hell, yeah!
When did Trek "jump the shark?"
- Thread starter Warped9
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Hell, yeah!
I think, then, that by definition that can't be a "jump the shark moment". "Jumping the shark" is passing a point of no return: the show is doomed, although it may take years for that to sink in.
^^ Aye, which is why I went with "Endgame": while more Trek has been produced since then, and some of it has been quite good, with the exception of the odd duckling Nemesis it's all been set prior to that episode. By driving the last nail into the coffin of the Borg as credible villains, and with the Dominion War over, there may not be all that much to work with, story-wise, in the known quadrants anymore...
Soon after DS9 went of the air Trek jumped the shark. Quality dropped somehwere halfway season 6 of Voyager. Enterprise was the final nail in the coffin, a disgrace and a mistake. A concept that only started living up to its potential in its fourth season, and by then it was too late.
Seeing as how that's what SO many people say about Star Trek XI, I'll stick with my assertion that that movie was the "jump the shark" moment.
Though, after giving it a lot more thought, I could also go with all of TOS. Thankfully it was rescued by TWOK and TNG.
For TV shows, I'd say it "jumped the shark" with the creation of "Voyager" in 1995. Despite some truly dismal episodes now and then, I think the Star Trek franchise had a very clean track record with its first three series. That fourth one was one series too many. With the movies, I'd say "Insurrection" in 1998 was the first big drop-off point for quality. "Generations" is quite horrible too, but I can think of it as a necessary dry run or awkward growing up stage for the TNG crew before they sailed to glory with their follow-up feature.
Although I say the Star Trek franchise's first major blunders were in 1994 and 1995, I think 1996 was its true peak. Just an all around fantastic year for all things Trek. You have the good vibes coming from it being the 30th anniversary of the original series, "Deep Space Nine" at its peak with one of its strongest seasons and its best episode (and one of the best episodes of any Star Trek series in "Trials and Tribble-ations") and of course the crowning achievement of the Star Trek movie franchise - "Star Trek: First Contact".
With so much brilliance in one year, it was inevitable that it would all be downhill from there. I just wish I'd been old enough to appreciate what a glorious time it was for Star Trek in 1996. There were a few inspired moments here and there post-1996 in the Star Trek world (i.e. some late DS9 episodes, "In a Mirror, Darkly", about half of the 2009 movie), but the franchise never came close to the heights it scaled in that period again and I don't think it ever will.
Although I say the Star Trek franchise's first major blunders were in 1994 and 1995, I think 1996 was its true peak. Just an all around fantastic year for all things Trek. You have the good vibes coming from it being the 30th anniversary of the original series, "Deep Space Nine" at its peak with one of its strongest seasons and its best episode (and one of the best episodes of any Star Trek series in "Trials and Tribble-ations") and of course the crowning achievement of the Star Trek movie franchise - "Star Trek: First Contact".
With so much brilliance in one year, it was inevitable that it would all be downhill from there. I just wish I'd been old enough to appreciate what a glorious time it was for Star Trek in 1996. There were a few inspired moments here and there post-1996 in the Star Trek world (i.e. some late DS9 episodes, "In a Mirror, Darkly", about half of the 2009 movie), but the franchise never came close to the heights it scaled in that period again and I don't think it ever will.
DS9 is easily and by far the only other Trek show that resembled the spirit of TOS. Unlike all the other Trek shows, DS9 is almost exactly the same as TOS in terms of having humor, conflict, adventure etc.
Trek jumped the shark with the first episode of TNG, because Berman decided to adhere to senile Roddenberry's insane "there must be no conflicts among humans" rule (in addition to various other problems like focusing on holodeck nonsense instead of aliens/SciFi concepts like TOS did). It is impossible to make drama with no conflict, so all the Trek shows that tried to do so fail on the levels of entertainment and artistic merit.
Trek un-jumped the shark when DS9 flushed that insane rule down the toilet, where it belongs.
Trek re-jumped the shark with Voyager and everything to come afterwards, which re-implemented the insane rule.
Abrams' Trek also flushed that rule down the toilet, but jumped the shark for various other reasons.
Why do people always bring up Trek XI as Jumped the Shark? It made a boatload of money. Brought in new fans, and brought back old ones. Trek is welcomed to the cinema because of it, not laughed at. People can't wait for a sequel. Trek is taken seriously again by the media. How is this a shark jump?
^^ Being popular doesn't automatically equal with being something good. Despite it's popularity ST09 was a piece of crap as a film and as a Trek movie. Sure it's a opinion, but I could name a number of other films and TV series that were popular yet I also thought them garbage.
I think people are missing the point of 'jump the shark' when they talk about things like the original series being the 'jump the shark' moment or it being 'unjumped' or the franchise being 'rescued' after jumping. 
There is no 'rescue' or 'unjump'. 'Jump the shark' means there's a point where it's irrevocably damaged and will never again be as good as it was before that moment. Something has to be good for awhile before it jumps. Saying it jumped after "The Cage" is ridiculous.
I point to 1996/1998 because I think Star Trek has only ever been 'okay' at times since then...but never as amazing as it was many times before that. I thought the new "Star Trek" movie was mostly good and "In A Mirror, Darkly" is brilliant, but the new movie is pitifully shallow emotionally and appallingly sloppy at the story level compared to the elegance of Star Treks II, IV, and VIII, and even the best TV episodes of the late 90s were a step down from the best of "Star Trek", "Star Trek: The Next Generation", and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" between 1966 and 1998.
There is no 'rescue' or 'unjump'. 'Jump the shark' means there's a point where it's irrevocably damaged and will never again be as good as it was before that moment. Something has to be good for awhile before it jumps. Saying it jumped after "The Cage" is ridiculous.I point to 1996/1998 because I think Star Trek has only ever been 'okay' at times since then...but never as amazing as it was many times before that. I thought the new "Star Trek" movie was mostly good and "In A Mirror, Darkly" is brilliant, but the new movie is pitifully shallow emotionally and appallingly sloppy at the story level compared to the elegance of Star Treks II, IV, and VIII, and even the best TV episodes of the late 90s were a step down from the best of "Star Trek", "Star Trek: The Next Generation", and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" between 1966 and 1998.
Exactly, so Star Trek XI. It irrevocably damaged the franchise, IMO. It made Star Trek nothing more than a special effects effect.
I don't believe in the "Jump the Shark" concept. A few creative missteps don't doom a series forever. You just course-correct.
Like with the new movie, which is the best thing to happen to the franchise in years. IMHO.
As to its long-term effect, that remains to be seen. None of us can predict if the franchise has been given new life or "irrevocably damaged." We're only one movie into the new cycle. It's way too early to pass judgment on the future of the series.
But, hey, if THE FINAL FRONTIER didn't kill the franchise, nothing can!
Like with the new movie, which is the best thing to happen to the franchise in years. IMHO.
As to its long-term effect, that remains to be seen. None of us can predict if the franchise has been given new life or "irrevocably damaged." We're only one movie into the new cycle. It's way too early to pass judgment on the future of the series.
But, hey, if THE FINAL FRONTIER didn't kill the franchise, nothing can!
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doubleohfive
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I don't know. I've been watching Trek since 1985 at least, and something keeps me coming back. Sure, the quality has waved and crested, but overall I can't be arsed enough anymore to really care if they get it all 100% right 100% of the time.
Too many people on this board are so obsessed with minute details and continuity glitches and reused footage and all the other bullshit that it's just easier for me to sit back, enjoy the thing for what it's worth and leave it at that.
Too many people on this board are so obsessed with minute details and continuity glitches and reused footage and all the other bullshit that it's just easier for me to sit back, enjoy the thing for what it's worth and leave it at that.
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True enough. But for some of us what it's worth isn't damned much.
When they did a two-part episode about a ridiculous death penalty law, carried on like Spock was in violation of some dreadful sanction and would be punished most severely for stealing a spaceship and violating the law, and then dropped the whole plot thread in the last five minutes of the show with a lame, lame excuse.
If you know anything about the military or even legal practice in general that strained plausibility past the breaking point - it was never possible to take Trek seriously after that.
If you know anything about the military or even legal practice in general that strained plausibility past the breaking point - it was never possible to take Trek seriously after that.
Well, I mean really - if one can buy that "because of Captain Pike's awesomeness the law doesn't matter" bushwah there's certainly nothing in more recent Star Trek to bat an eyelash at. 
Star Trek: Enterprise was half an improvement over the previous five years or so of the Franchise. "Half" was, obviously, not nearly enough - it was left to the next version to really deliver on the "not your father's Star Trek" promise, actually reenergize the show, and make it a success with the unconverted once more.
Star Trek: Enterprise was half an improvement over the previous five years or so of the Franchise. "Half" was, obviously, not nearly enough - it was left to the next version to really deliver on the "not your father's Star Trek" promise, actually reenergize the show, and make it a success with the unconverted once more.
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