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When did the TOS crew die?

There are at least four or five people who were more determining on these missions than he was... when did they name a ship after Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Sulu, and Uhura?
Spock would decline, McCoy wouldn't care, and I'm sure we will see the other three soon enough.
 
Along with four hundred members of the crew, not to mention Illia and Decker who died in the process... How many hundreds of ships do the Federation have?

According to DSC, Starfleet had 7,000 ships ten years before TOS. What, you don’t think they could spare seven of them for the most decorated bridge crew in the Federation?
 
According to DSC, Starfleet had 7,000 ships ten years before TOS. What, you don’t think they could spare seven of them for the most decorated bridge crew in the Federation?

Yeah, 7.000 ships seem like an awful lot considering that for example in TFF the dysfunctional Enterprise-A with part of its crew on shore leave is the ONLY ship available to rescue three lower-rank diplomats taken hostages by some lunatic on a barren rock of a planet. what are the chances of that happening?
 
Yeah, 7.000 ships seem like an awful lot considering that for example in TFF the dysfunctional Enterprise-A with part of its crew on shore leave is the ONLY ship available to rescue three lower-rank diplomats taken hostages by some lunatic on a barren rock of a planet. what are the chances of that happening?
Plot connivance. Also, as Admiral "Bill" states "I need Jim Kirk."
 
Yeah, 7.000 ships seem like an awful lot considering that for example in TFF the dysfunctional Enterprise-A with part of its crew on shore leave is the ONLY ship available to rescue three lower-rank diplomats taken hostages by some lunatic on a barren rock of a planet. what are the chances of that happening?

I never said Star Trek made sense.
 
I don't think they referred to Saavik as a 'he' regardless of the title moniker they used.



Thank you for proving me right.
AmbitiousChubbyBergerpicard.webp
 
We obviously know Kirk and Spock's fate as well.

We don't really know Spock's fate though. We know that the Federation government of the Kelvin Timeline believed that he had died in 2263. But we never saw his body, or learned the circumstances of his death. For all we know, it is possible that in an off-camera adventure, Spock returned to the Prime Universe, or traveled to the Mirror Universe. Or maybe he faked his death and assumed a new identity.

The episode was written 25 years ago. The intent is clearly that ‘Captain Sulu’ is a guy.

There is no reason why anyone must be bound to an authorial intent that is not explicitly stated in the text and which was itself based on culturally hegemonic biases against transgender people. There's nothing in the text to establish or imply that Demora didn't change their gender identity, just like there's nothing in the text to establish Demora did. It's a matter of totally subjective interpretation.

That's classified.

Ah, but do we watch the show about the turbolift inspection officer?

That sounds like the premise of a Lower Decks episode, and I would watch it with glee.

There are at least four or five people who were more determining on these missions than he was... when did they name a ship after Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Sulu, and Uhura?

Who's to say they didn't? It's not like we've ever gotten a complete overview of Starfleet vessels.

For whatever it's worth, the novel continuity (which is now ending because PIC S1 contradicted its history of the 2380s) established that the USS James T. Kirk was an Akira-class starship in the 2370s and 2380s. Star Trek Online features two different hospital ships named USS McCoy.

Edited to add: Star Trek Online also features a USS Montgomery Scott. End edit.

How do we know it was Pavel Chekov? It could very well have been his cousin Corky.

Or Anton the playwright.

Yeah, 7.000 ships seem like an awful lot

It seems realistic to me considering the vastness of space and the size of the Federation.

considering that for example in TFF the dysfunctional Enterprise-A with part of its crew on shore leave is the ONLY ship available to rescue three lower-rank diplomats taken hostages by some lunatic on a barren rock of a planet. what are the chances of that happening?

That never made any sense whatsoever. Neither did TMP's contrivance that the Enterprise was the only starship in the Sol system.
 
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Spelling is optional, especially in Star Trek. And for the playwright, Chekov is certainly a currently allowed one, along with Tchekhoff and Tjejov, among others.

Timo Saloniemi
 
First Kirk was brought back to life by the Borg. Turns out everyone was still alive and old like Bones in this time period. Eventually Kirk got the gang together and traveled back into the past and int the Kelvinverse were they all joined Spock and lived together again until Bones, Scotty and Spock died. Everyone else is still alive.
 
We don't really know Spock's fate though. We know that the Federation government of the Kelvin Timeline believed that he had died in 2263. But we never saw his body, or learned the circumstances of his death. For all we know, it is possible that in an off-camera adventure, Spock returned to the Prime Universe, or traveled to the Mirror Universe. Or maybe he faked his death and assumed a new identity.

I'm a big fan of Occam's Razor. I don't need convoluted explanations for the things I see on screen. If STB tells me that Prime Spock has died, then AFAIK he's dead. Not to mention that they said he died on screen because Nimoy died in real life, and it was a tribute to him. Saying that 'oooooh, he's not really dead, he's just on some secret trip' demeans that entire scene. YMMV.

There is no reason why anyone must be bound to an authorial intent that is not explicitly stated in the text and which was itself based on culturally hegemonic biases against transgender people. There's nothing in the text to establish or imply that Demora didn't change their gender identity, just like there's nothing in the text to establish Demora did. It's a matter of totally subjective interpretation.

I'm not telling people what they should think. If someone wants to believe that Demora Sulu decided she identified as a man, that's fine. But using Occam's Razor, I'm pretty sure the intent in that Voyager episode was that 'Captain Sulu' was in fact a very old Hikaru still in command of a ship in 2344. And that's just fine with me. I don't feel that I'm being 'biased against transgender people' for thinking that, and I certainly hope you aren't accusing me of such.
 
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Scotty’s accent in famously bad. “Hold my beer”
Is a meme referring to something being better/worse than the previous thing.

Imagine if Doohan went totally authentic...

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I'm a big fan of Occam's Razor. I don't need convoluted explanations for the things I see on screen. If STB tells me that Prime Spock has died, then AFAIK he's dead. Not to mention that they said he died on screen because Nimoy died in real life, and it was a tribute to him. Saying that 'oooooh, he's not really dead, he's just on some secret trip' demeans that entire scene. YMMV.

And that is a completely legitimate interpretation to have. I just think it's important to note that, canonically, we did not actually see Spock die. Other interpretations are consistent with what is onscreen.

I'm not telling people what they should think. If someone wants to believe that Demora Sulu decided she identified as a man, that's fine. But using Occam's Razor, I'm pretty sure the intent in that Voyager episode was that 'Captain Sulu' was in fact a very old Hikaru still in command of a ship in 2344. And that's just fine with me. I don't feel that I'm being 'biased against transgender people' for thinking that, and I certainly hope you aren't accusing me of such.

I was not accusing you of such, and I apologize if it came across that way.

What I was trying to convey is that when you invoked probable authorial intention of 1990s-era writers, you're invoking the culturally hegemonic idea held by people 25 years ago that one's biological sex equals one's gender identity and that one's gender identity can never change. This idea -- which can be summed up in the word "cis-sexism," or perhaps in the word "cisheterosexism," was so nearly-universally held in the mid-1990s that it is reasonable to assume that the VOY writers held that idea. But that idea was so pervasive as to be invisible to those writers -- a cultural belief likely held without conscious realization that it is a cultural belief rather than an objective fact. But cisheterosexism is not true, and it is itself inherently an idea that is biased against transgender people -- even if the people who held that belief didn't realize they were holding it, even if they held that belief as a result of cultural indoctrination that they didn't know they should fight.

In other words -- I'm saying that I agree it's probable that the VOY writers did not mean to imply that Demora may have changed their gender identity because the idea probably never occurred to them due to ingrained unconscious cisheterosexism, but that that cisheterosexism was harmful and modern audiences should not feel as though authorial intent matters in deciding whether or not Demora changed their gender identity. Interpreting the "Captain Sulu" referenced in VOY as the same person who appeared in GEN under the name Demora is completely legitimate, and VOY writers' authorial intent is irrelevant.
 
Honestly, it was really nothing more than a throwaway line for fanservice. Like Janeway’s cameo in Nemesis. I don’t think any more thought went into it than that. And I only brought it up because it’s possible evidence that Hikaru Sulu was still alive in 2344.
 
Honestly, it was really nothing more than a throwaway line for fanservice. Like Janeway’s cameo in Nemesis. I don’t think any more thought went into it than that. And I only brought it up because it’s possible evidence that Hikaru Sulu was still alive in 2344.

If it was him he was extremely old.
 
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