When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?
- Thread starter Ragitsu
- Start date
Hush your mouth!
While it's on topic for generating much Janeway hate this thread is becoming quite Tuvix focused. Suffice it to say it was definitely her Kobayashi Maru.
Hey, you can't spell "Janeway" without "Tuvix".
...wait a second...
Perhaps, perhaps not. It's hard to judge whether the Ornarans would actually kill themselves in despair when going cold-turkey (believing they'd die anyway) or that it would be more like tearing a band aid off. Extremely unpleasant while it lasts, but no more than that.
I think Picard was pretty ruthless to leave the two Brekkans on Ornara. I think Kirk would have handled the situation completely differently - he would definitely have told the Ornarans that the Brekkans were giving them drugs not medicine.
He probably would. and personally I probably would have favored that option as well in this case, and let Beverley substitute that painless replacement to wean them off of the felicium, scr*w the PD.
But, given that Picard is a stickler for maintaining it and unwilling to break it if possible at all, the solution is clever - even if not the most painless one.
As for the Brekkans also beaming down to the Ornaran surface and probably not being able to return from there - that's a loose end I never thought about. But the script also tells us they had one other freighter left, even if that one had problems as well.
Last edited:
I wondered about that also. They would be fully stranded there unless the Ornarans were able to fix their ships.
I always thought it was possible that they somehow find out about the drug and take it out on those two.
I always thought it was possible that they somehow find out about the drug and take it out on those two.
I can't remember, I'm sure you are right - they probably were rescued then.
Low ratings.
I was standing in the local Boarders Book shop 20 something years ago, minding my own business, when they wheel in this crate big as a bear, which is full of three hundred vhs copies of the new episode of Voyager.
TVNZ was 2 or three years behind the states with Star Trek depending on your temporal reference, and downloading was in it's infancy, so 25 dollars for 2 episodes of Voyager, 3 years before it's supposed to be on TV, and no fucking advertising... Sale of the Century.
...did you watch the episode when it first aired? The message may have been somewhat heavy-handed, but it is important to keep in mind the zeitgeist of the time.
Maybe she wasn't that competent a Captain and her superiors felt promoting her to Admiral was a nicer thing to do than telling her that she was a poor Captain.
FTFY.
Forcibly demerging Tuvix to save Tuvok and Neelix is widely seen as a wanton act of murder, but forcibly demerging Varad Dax to save Jadzia is not.
Admiral Janeway unwinding her timeline to save Seven/Chakotay/Tuvok is highly controversial, but Old Jake doing the same thing for his father is not.
Why does Janeway get such a hard time for things that DS9 was able to do without controversy?
Admiral Janeway unwinding her timeline to save Seven/Chakotay/Tuvok is highly controversial, but Old Jake doing the same thing for his father is not.
Why does Janeway get such a hard time for things that DS9 was able to do without controversy?
Verad stole Dax from Jadzia. That gets a pass because they were putting the symbiote back in its rightful place. Plus, Verad didn't die. Tuvix was an accidental creation. Honestly, no matter what she decided, Janeway was going to get flak. In this case, separating Tuvix was the lesser of two evils.
Regarding "THE VISITOR" vs. "ENDGAME"... as mentioned by Oddish, the former is a VASTLY superior episode.
While it is a valid point and comparison, what people forget is that Jake was never in Starfleet. He never received the training or got the experience that Janeway did through the Academy and decades of Starfleet service. I don't think the broader ramifications of what he was about to do was something he could even realize. Janeway, on the other hand, knows full well her actions will lead to an entirely different timeline.
While both people were motivated by grief, only one of them truly understood what they were doing.
On further thought, by the time Jake executed (poor choice of words...) his plan he was an old man, so he probably -did- realize what he was doing...but he was also clearly traumatized, and I'm willing to argue he was more traumatized than Janeway was. Jake's father didn't die, he was stuck in an apparently endless purgatory, while the folks Janeway knew had lived out their lives one way or another.
Very true.
But consider something else... after Ben disappeared the second time, it was a good 20 years or more until he reappeared in his house. Jake already moved on... had a wife, a career. Suddenly, reopening that wound AND finding out he was tethered to him clearly traumatized him further.
It's almost like watching someone you love die over and over again. No wonder Jake was so grief stricken.
But consider something else... after Ben disappeared the second time, it was a good 20 years or more until he reappeared in his house. Jake already moved on... had a wife, a career. Suddenly, reopening that wound AND finding out he was tethered to him clearly traumatized him further.
It's almost like watching someone you love die over and over again. No wonder Jake was so grief stricken.
