When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Ragitsu, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    [​IMG]
     
    jackoverfull and STEPhon IT like this.
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Are there any other choices?
     
  3. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny California
    I did a surf on the web for Jeri Ryan and People Magazine; she's had multiple articles.
    https://people.com/tag/jeri-ryan/

    So if she didn't make the cut when she arrived on VOY, which I doubt because there's no question how good looking she is, People magazine made a Herculean effect to make up for it.
     
    Danja likes this.
  4. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    Maybe they didn't want to do two Voyager stars in rapid sequence.
     
    Ragitsu likes this.
  5. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny California
    I don't think Ryan was on the show yet, Jennifer Lien was still a cast member.
     
  6. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    Claire Forlani? She was a fetching lass during her halcyon days.
     
  7. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2019
    Location:
    Unimatrix 259
    The Average viewer in flyover country wouldn't have made that distinction ("Vulcan First Officer? That's just like Kirk and Spock!")
     
    maneth and Ragitsu like this.
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
  9. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    Eminently reasonable. With entertainment, even if you don't court the LCD, the LCD still has a way of courting you.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Please avoid the derogatory "flyover country" stereotype. Many of us in the Midwest live in cities as sophisticated as any on the coasts, including my hometown of Cincinnati, which is one of the nation's leading centers of art, culture, and education.
     
    Danja likes this.
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    I know, but this was in Year 3 of the show. Lien and Wang were presumably both still present and both in the showrunners' crosshairs. By featuring Wang, People is believed to have influenced the showrunners to terminate Lien and eliminate Kes.

    Assuming they do one of these "beautiful people" rags a year, that would have made Ryan a candidate in Year 4. Maybe they didn't want to do Voyager characters two years in a row, despite Ryan being a very logical choice.
     
    Danja and jackoverfull like this.
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    The showrunners wanted to cancel Wang, and it was the network that forbade them.
     
    Danja likes this.
  13. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2019
    Location:
    Unimatrix 259
    The average viewer is not going to pay attention too much to the fact that Spock was half human. They're going to focus more on the Vulcan First Officer notion and how it reminded them of TOS.
     
    Ragitsu likes this.
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    And you could've made that point without resorting to condescending slurs about "flyover country."
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
    Brennyren likes this.
  15. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    And presumably, this article was at least part of the reason why.
     
    Guy Gardener likes this.
  16. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2019
    Location:
    Unimatrix 259
    I'm sorry I offended you.
     
  17. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2021
    "Once a Vulcan, always a Vulcan." Plus, it did not help matters that more effort was put into making Nimoy's half-Vulcan Spock stand out (the greenish tint!) compared to most full-blooded Vulcans that looked human aside from their noticeably pointy ears.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
    Danja likes this.
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I'm pretty sure that most Vulcan actors throughout the franchise's history have always been made up with the "LN-1" color that was invented for Leonard Nimoy. I've never thought that Spock looked any more greenish than other Vulcans.

    Really, though, looking at early TOS, I get the impression that pure-blooded "Vulcanians" were originally meant to look less human than Spock did. In "Mudd's Women," Harry Mudd recognized Spock as "part-Vulcanian" on sight, implying that there was a clear visual difference between a part-Vulcanian and a full Vulcanian. And before that, in "The Corbomite Maneuver," Spock said that the Scary Balok Puppet reminded him of his father, implying a more "monstrous" look for his father's species. But that idea was abandoned by the time we got to "Balance of Terror," I guess so that the possible relationship between Spock and the Romulans would be immediately obvious to the audience.

    I've often wondered what pure Vulcans/Vulcanians might have looked like if TOS had stuck with that original intention. Maybe they would have been greener, or had larger pointed ears.
     
    maneth and fireproof78 like this.
  19. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
    Italy
    I always thought that he meant his father acted similarly, not that he was similar in appearance.
     
    Ragitsu likes this.
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Sure, that's how it sounds to us now, knowing what other Vulcans and particularly Spock's father looked like. But I'm trying to set aside all that later knowledge and consider what the line could have meant at the time it was written, just one episode before "Mudd's Women" apparently assuming that Spock was visually distinguishable from a full Vulcanian.
     
    jackoverfull likes this.