What's with the Uniforms?

[C.E. Evans]

Be glad at least that they're not as bad as what appeared in The Cage and WNMHGB. Those stripe combinations made no damn sense whatsoever, nor did the uniform colors.

In "The Cage," one stripe meant officer, a black and gold stripe meant noncom, and no stripe meant enlisted.

There seems to be more complication than that.

Not really. Seems fairly straightforward.

Chief Garrison wore a stripe with holes cut out of it (and a solid stripe on his field jacket);

The aforementioned noncom stripe (descriptions can vary). Garrison was said to be a chief warrant officer, so having a stripe like that would correspond with that.

several apparent enlisted crewmen wore wide blue stripes on their field jackets;

You mean on some hazard team vests? Those aren't rank stripes. Firefighters wear similar wide stripes on their jackets (they reflect light, which comes in handy in dark, hard-to-see environments).

and Yeoman Colt wore nothing on either her jacket or her shirtsleeve.

Reference sources, such as Star Trek.com refer to Colt as an officer. Perhaps she was an Ensign or Lieutenant J.G.? (Memory Alpha lists her rank as Lieutenant, which is also her usual rank in Pike-era books and comics.)

I don't believe her rank was ever mentioned onscreen though, so I'll go with the no stripes meaning enlisted.

Individual ranks still existed, but they seemed to be regarded more like titles. Position (like who was captain, first officer, chief engineer, etc.) seemed to be more important than the number of stripes on a sleeve, IMO.

I read somewhere (Memory Alpha?) that the original idea for officer ranks was along the lines of Napoleonic-era rank schemes, in which all mid-level and senior officers except the captain were lieutenants by grade, with authority varying by position.

There was also a commander rank during that time.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Have you seen the way Riker sits?
You probably have to pass some kind of licensing exam to get issued a skant.

The skant does has a divide in it. And there's probably a regulation jockstrap/undergarment underneath.

 

[The Wormhole]

Have you seen the way Riker sits?
You probably have to pass some kind of licensing exam to get issued a skant.

Imagine how Data would feel (provided he had his emotion chip) whenever Riker wore a skant and propped his foot on the ledge of Data's console...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There was also a commander rank during that time.

I always assumed that the rank of Commander was created to depict the officer who actually runs the ship - the Captain used to be just the one who OWNS the ship and did not actively command it. Is this what you were meaning?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Have you seen the way Riker sits?
You probably have to pass some kind of licensing exam to get issued a skant.

Imagine how Data would feel (provided he had his emotion chip) whever Riker wore a skant and propped his foot on the ledge of Data's console...

This is the most repulsive thing I've ever read.

Thankfully there is NO RIKER in NuTrek

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Just for that, JJ's gonna put Cupcake in a skant, and give him a chair next to Kirk.

 

[C.E. Evans]

There was also a commander rank during that time.

I always assumed that the rank of Commander was created to depict the officer who actually runs the ship - the Captain used to be just the one who OWNS the ship and did not actively command it. Is this what you were meaning?

Nope, there was an actual rank of commander between lieutenant and captain during those times. But it was also used as a title for the captain of any vessel.

A general rule of thumb was that the first officer oversaw the day-to-day operations of a vessel while the captain was in charge of its overall mission and any orders assigned to her from fleet command.

 

[ROBE]

I always thought it was stupid that an ensign had no rank stripe, this was corrected in TMP when ensigns got Lt. Jg rank stripe as the higher rank seem to have vanished.
Okay in the Royal Navy midshipmen who are equal to US Navy ensigns have no stripe but they do have a button and white patch to show their rank.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I always thought it was stupid that an ensign had no rank stripe, this was corrected in TMP when ensigns got Lt. Jg rank stripe as the higher rank seem to have vanished.

It probably would have been better in TOS if there had been separate uniforms for officers and enlisted, but ensigns and crewmen were indistinguishable from one another. At one point, I thought the department-colored coveralls were enlisted uniforms, but we saw officers (such as Lieutenant Kyle) wearing them too.

 

[ROBE]

This also lead to some publications thinking that ensigns and enlisted are one and the same.
The guy who designed WOK uniforms new what he was doing.
One uniform for officers and another for ratings, clear insignia for petty officers etc and clear insignia for officers.
Also white for command, yellow for engineering, grey for science, light green for medical, dark green for security, light blue for services and red for officer cadets and trainee ratings.
Just a pity nobody seemed to follow his notes when doing manuals or later movies.

 

[T'Girl]

Thankfully there is NO RIKER in NuTrek

Sure there is, the date of his birth was changed along with nuChekov's by the arrival of the Narada. He'll be in Star Trek Twelve/Two.

Even Trek XI tries to dance around the issue by having Pike describe Starfleet as a "humanitarian peacekeeping armada."

Not quite, Captain Pike actually described the Federation with those terms, which is a little scary.

Pike: "You understand what the Federation is, don't you? It's important. It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada."

CHRISTOPHER: I see. Did the Navy ... (possibly he was going to say "build this?")
KIRK: We're a combined service, Captain. Our authority is the United Earth Space Probe Agency.

I took that to mean that Starfleet was like the Israeli and Canadian military, where there are internal divisions for things like the navy, the army, so forth. But without there being completely separate branches. The forces are integrated.

Purple suits.

 

[The Wormhole]

At one point, I thought the department-colored coveralls were enlisted uniforms, but we saw officers (such as Lieutenant Kyle) wearing them too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only time Mr Kyle wore a jumpsuit was Mirror Mirror. So likely Kyle is an officer in the Prime Universe, but enlisted in the MU.

Of course, then there's Mr Leslie who did wear both uniforms in the Prime Universe. Of course, Leslie wore different uniform colours, was referred to by several names, worked at least three different departments, frequently canged his rank stripes between Ensign and Lieutenant, and even continued eporting for duty after being killed, so maybe he isn't the best precedent to cite.

The guy who designed WOK uniforms new what he was doing.
One uniform for officers and another for ratings, clear insignia for petty officers etc and clear insignia for officers.
Also white for command, yellow for engineering, grey for science, light green for medical, dark green for security, light blue for services and red for officer cadets and trainee ratings.
Just a pity nobody seemed to follow his notes when doing manuals or later movies.

I love TWOK's uniforms, they are probably among the coolest in all Trek. But they are confusing as hell. As big a Trek nerd as I am, I've never been able to figure out the department colours beyond white for command and red for cadets, and the only rank insignia I can identify are the ones for Captain and Admiral. I'm glad Trek eventually reverted to a simpler division colour code and simpler rank identification.

Even Trek XI tries to dance around the issue by having Pike describe Starfleet as a "humanitarian peacekeeping armada."

Not quite, Captain Pike actually described the Federation with those terms, which is a little scary.

Pike: "You understand what the Federation is, don't you? It's important. It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada."

Not the first time Star Trek has sloppily referred to Starfleet and the Ferderation as one and the same, and probably won't be the last.

I took that to mean that Starfleet was like the Israeli and Canadian military, where there are internal divisions for things like the navy, the army, so forth. But without there being completely separate branches. The forces are integrated.

Although essentially correct, it's a bit more complicated than that. Canada does have seperate rank structures for its Army, Navy and Air Force. But yes, the entire military is considered one whole organization, with there being only one actual chief of staff.

 

[C.E. Evans]

At one point, I thought the department-colored coveralls were enlisted uniforms, but we saw officers (such as Lieutenant Kyle) wearing them too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only time Mr Kyle wore a jumpsuit was Mirror Mirror.

Yeah, you're wrong.

Kyle wore a jumpsuit--either blue or red--in many of his appearances in TOS, including "Space Seed,"
"Tomorrow Is Yesterday," and "City On The Edge of Forever."

 

[Therin of Andor]

At one point, I thought the department-colored coveralls were enlisted uniforms, but we saw officers (such as Lieutenant Kyle) wearing them too.

Doesn't Uhura wear a coverall when she's under the console fixing something?

whenever Riker wore a skant and propped his foot on the ledge of Data's console...

"Keep your eye on the ball, Data."

"Ah, a saying from old Earth, Sir?"

 

[C.E. Evans]

At one point, I thought the department-colored coveralls were enlisted uniforms, but we saw officers (such as Lieutenant Kyle) wearing them too.

Doesn't Uhura wear a coverall when she's under the console fixing something?

Yep (although she was wearing it over her regular uniform). Spock also wore one when he was laid up in sickbay. It was sorta like a general utility outfit, IMO.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't recall the TOS dress uniforms having any rank insignia, unless the collar/stripe means something. Though, Spock, Kirk and Stone all sport the same collar/stripe while holding different ranks.

 

[ROBE]

RE dress uniforms. Scotty and McCoy as Lt Commanders had thin gold stripes around their colars and fronts.
Spock while same rank was acting up to Commander and had a thick gold stripe. Kirk had two additional thin gold stripes running down from his colar to his arms, so I resume this shows he is captain. The commodore had two thin gold stripes running down each arm from colar shoulder to cuff.
So ranks from Lt Commander to Commodore were shown.
The only Lts ever seen in dress were the female prosecutor who wore a shiney female uniform with a longer skirt, thin gold stripe around her black colar, star base symbol and lt rank stripes on her cuffs.

As usual later on. They messed things up by having a Commodore wear the same dress uniform as Kirk and a Lt and head of security wear a Lt Commanders dress uniform (although he may have been acting up like Spock?).

 

[Takeru]

The guy who designed WOK uniforms new what he was doing.

I don't think he did, while he thought about a gazillion division colors and rank insignia, he forgot to make them noticeable, when I watched the movies as a kid I didn't even realize the division colors still existed, I thought they were all wearing red, even today I have no idea what most division colors mean and I never figured out the rank insignia, I can't even describe them.

Show me a picture of an extra from any series and I can tell you rank and division, show me an extra from movies 2-6 and all I can tell you that this person serves in Starfleet, wears a red jacket and probably sweats like a pig if he has to wear it all day.

 

[C.E. Evans]

In a real sense, the rank pins used on the TWOK uniforms are no different than the rank pins used by the U.S. armed services in which you have to be familiar with what the individual insignias means. To someone not versed in them, they're just a bunch of meaningless pins too.

I didn't really have a problem with the undershirt branch colors, though.

 

[ROBE]

I had no problem with the department colours or rank insignia.
The only complaint i would have is the rank insignia of rear admiral to admiral is too similar, i believe this is why they added bars to the coloured strap worn by admirals on left arm.

Modern US military often wear small insignia on their shoulders or collars.