The military is only for show until we're attacked -then we arm ourselves.
Conservatives build empires, liberals form federations.
It all depends on whom you chose to share tech with, actually.
I'm sure.
What's with conservative Trekkies?
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The military is only for show until we're attacked -then we arm ourselves.
Conservatives build empires, liberals form federations.
It all depends on whom you chose to share tech with, actually.
I'm sure.
*cough* DS9
DS9 is a war-time story afaik.
To me, DS9 represents the true Federation. Yeah, we're nice and the such, but we act out of our own interest time and again.
We didn't liberate the Bajorans, we sat back and allowed the Cardies to continue their violent assault on their homeworld.
Time and again, the federation acted out of self-interest and threw its ideals aside... as all true pragmatists do
We didn't liberate the Bajorans, we sat back and allowed the Cardies to continue their violent assault on their homeworld.
Time and again, the federation acted out of self-interest and threw its ideals aside... as all true pragmatists do
To me, DS9 represents the true Federation. Yeah, we're nice and the such, but we act out of our own interest time and again.
We didn't liberate the Bajorans, we sat back and allowed the Cardies to continue their violent assault on their homeworld.
Time and again, the federation acted out of self-interest and threw its ideals aside... as all true pragmatists do
Admittedly I don't remember much of it very clear, but Bajor wasn't part of the Federation, and therefore not their responsibility, when Cardassia went there. -The faith of the universe isn't the Federations concern.
Time and time again, misguided federation organizations and individuals went above the law -is it that what you're thinking about there?
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Edit:
Mr. B Your post is also about misguided people breaking the principles of the Federation.
While people of all political thought can enjoy the show, I would say that's dead on in regards to the American views of right and left. Capitalism is replaced by a system in which everyone contributes to the society. The death penalty is no longer a valid form of punishment. Social commentary on sexism. The list goes on.
While the economic system of star trek is defiantly a liberal stance other areas I would say are actually conservative values. Sarah Palin and John McCain do not represent true conservative values, but they and people like them are seen as the leaders of the conservative movement in the US. The word conservative is obviously from the word conserve, which means to limit. In reference to political thought, it would limit the power of government. There is nothing conservative about propostion 8 and similar legislation. That is the government interfearing with people lives when they bring no harm to anyone else. Just because it may be wrong(not saying that it is) to be gay doesn't mean that the government should step in and attempt social engineering. The word conserve in no concievable way has anythign to do with being gay. It is actually more conservative to say that the government has no part in marriage and morality should be left to the indivdual, not to the masses.
So while trek leans to the left, its really not as bad as it seems. It is only our misconceptions of what is conservative and what is liberal that makes it such a liberal idealogy.
^^ I agree with you; that's why I always specifically say Left Wing and Right Wing-- these are not the same things as liberal and conservative.
And this makes you think it's Right Wing. Interesting.Time and again, the federation acted out of self-interest and threw its ideals aside... as all true pragmatists do
I have always believed that the left's ideals are not bad, they are simply unrealistic.And this makes you think it's Right Wing. Interesting.
Would I love to see a world where no poverty exists? no pain? Of course I would. Are we ever? Nope.
For every system like social security that we set up, we have plenty of people who want to politicize it and use it for their benefit. Even now, how many people are on welfare in this nation that could get jobs? I believe your ideals aren't bad... your approach is
Our ideals, while not perfect guides our approach which is much better in every day practicality
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
The "prime directive" seems like a libertarian stance to me.
Also, you can only assume "everyone contributes to society" in Star Trek.
One person's version of "bettering one's self" might be just cruising the galaxy fucking green skinned chicks.
I'd imagine there's billions of Federation citizens who don't really do jack shit in the grand scheme of things. And there wouldn't necessarily be any reason for them to, at least in peace time.
Take Sisko's dad. Yes, he runs a restaurant. But people could go somewhere else or eat replicated crap. He's just a artist of sorts, and society could endure without him.
Also, you can only assume "everyone contributes to society" in Star Trek.
One person's version of "bettering one's self" might be just cruising the galaxy fucking green skinned chicks.
I'd imagine there's billions of Federation citizens who don't really do jack shit in the grand scheme of things. And there wouldn't necessarily be any reason for them to, at least in peace time.
Take Sisko's dad. Yes, he runs a restaurant. But people could go somewhere else or eat replicated crap. He's just a artist of sorts, and society could endure without him.
"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible." - Arthur C Clarke.I have always believed that the left's ideals are not bad, they are simply unrealistic.And this makes you think it's Right Wing. Interesting.
Would I love to see a world where no poverty exists? no pain? Of course I would. Are we ever? Nope.
But a society without artists would essentially be Borg
but in your "possible" we have too many people exploiting systems"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible." - Arthur C Clarke.I have always believed that the left's ideals are not bad, they are simply unrealistic.And this makes you think it's Right Wing. Interesting.
Would I love to see a world where no poverty exists? no pain? Of course I would. Are we ever? Nope.
which creates a backlash
which divides us, yet again
Sorry my friend, what you want truly is impossible... not simply pushing the limit on possible
^
Nonsense.
Nonsense.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Any artists, perhaps. But full time artists could be seen as a luxury, as opposed to an essential contribute that keeps society running.
Anyway, I see Trek's utopia future is both an over-achiever and a lazy person's paradise. Obviously, people are more motivated, but still...we mostly only see the duty types, and a few redeemable wash-outs/criminals (the Maquis).
Well, I'm not a conservative, but even I can see that the system is exploited all the time.
Most people, at the end of the day, will get whatever they can out of the system that falls within their own personal (and often rationalized) moral code. That is human nature. And since the government cannot catch all cheaters and alot is left to people's own personal moral code and conscience, we DO have people who exploit the systems. Lots of people - exploiting lots of systems.
Examples:
The welfare system was meant to help normally hard-working but temporarily indigent families with children who found themselves in dire straits. It was NOT meant as a lifestyle that induced people to intentionally have more children, just so that they could continue to qualify for it and not ever have to do anything remotely resembling 'work' ever again.
The union system grew out of a very legitimate need and was intended to stop the exploitation of workers back in the industrial age - a noble beginning. But now, here we are, bailing out auto manufacturers whose chief expense is workers with mere high school diplomas (or less) who make more money for screwing the same nut on the same bolt a billion times a day than I do as a CPA with advanced training and degrees and highly specialized knowledge and skills.
And on the flip side of the coin at those same belly-up auto manufacturers, you have top brass who abuse the system by voting themselves huge salaries and bonuses every year, manipulating the tax system and robbing the shareholders...all for the incredible talent they display and the massive value added they provide....of bankrupting the company.
You have small business owners who exploit the tax system (and I ought to know - I used to do their taxes) every single day - building their own houses and burying the costs in their business as deductible expenses...adding vaguely stated vehicles (personal campers used to tailgate at Tennessee football games) to the business fixed asset schedule and deducting THEM...calling their children's cell phones 'business expenses'....you name it, I've seen it.
Bottom line: there are ALOT of people in this world on the take.
You can choose to live in denial if you like. But if you want to continue to believe that most people are decent and moral and not at all interested in doing everything they can think of to get 'more for me', might I suggest that you NEVER become a CPA and start doing people's taxes.
Because after doing thousands and thousands of tax returns in my life, I can tell you - most people are all about looking out for Number One. By whatever means they think they can get away with.
How's the view from your ivory tower?
No.
Sure we could all eat McCrap three times a day, wash it down with syntehol enhanced chemicals, watch re-re-re-re-gurgitated films and shows, finally get a chance to read Shakespeare -simply b/c no new thoughts have had talented people express them. But art (in all it's forms) is as essential to us as breathing. If not to enjoy life, then why do we live?
True, that; The serials don't focus very much on ordinary people, or hardworking ones, like colonists would probably be.
However, once the necessary technology is present there's really very little need for a lot of labor - It used to be that people would work (hard) from sun up to sun down, then it became eight hours a day for six days a week today we have 35 hours a week for a little over 40 weeks a year. There's no reason to doubt that the future holds a working life of (easy) supervision of machines a couple of hours every other week -for the vast majority of personhood.
No ivory tower here. Just 20 years as an auditor, accountant, and tax preparer who has uncovered more lying, cheating and stealing out there in the real world than most people around here could possibly imagine. And who has heard an almost equal number of lame-ass excuses and rationalizations for said behavior.
How about you spend less time posting in cyberspace and instead spend the next 20 years as an auditor, accountant and tax preparer and get back to me about about the infinite goodwill and honesty of man. Nothing quite like rooting around in people's finances to to show you what they are REALLY about and what they REALLY stand for....lip service aside and all that jazz.
Alot of people talk a good talk and put up a good front. But you want to know what they are TRULY like? Take a walk through their checkbook and their credit card statements.
Edit:
And do I feel sorry for these unions who have been extorting (often through threat of or actual physical violence) outrageous salaries from the auto manufacturers for years?
Nope. Not in the slightest.
The debits have to equal the credits. Expenses go up, profit goes down. It is the way things ARE. And it is also the way things ARE that salaries are one of the largest expenses of a company.
When both the unions and top management are exploiting the company with outrageous payroll expense, profits are gonna crash unless you can sell more cars at higher prices.
And since the economy is not supporting the idea of selling more cars at higher prices.... Well...the math is just not that difficult.
I mean, even a high school graduate can do THAT math.
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