What's in YOUR 'head canon'?

[UnknownSample]

I think the disagreement lies elsewhere.

Yes it's about control.

IIRC, they feel it stronger than we do. That's why they feel they must control and suppress their emotions. The nuclear war that nearly destroyed Vulcan was the result of out of control emotions.

It's both.

No, emotion is feeling. A sign of something, like indication of emotion that registers in the face, is not the thing itself.
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Vulcans were a comment on the violence of the human race. We are cheated of the message being sent, if we remove the meaning of the idea of a Vulcan, and make it just a matter of their needing emotional control more than us. Vulcans certainly never say they have more violent emotions to suppress than human beings do. (Again, bad revisionist movies that miss the point of Trek and what it is don't count.) They believe humans are too violent and impulsive, and would do well to adopt the same solution they did... pushing down and distancing themselves from feeling/emotion as much as possible.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Again, those "bad revisionist movies" took their cue, and a couple of scenes virtually word-for-word, from Dorothy Fontana.

TAS: "YESTERYEAR"
SPOCK: What you do not yet understand, Spock, is that Vulcans do not lack emotion. It is only that ours is controlled. Logic offers a serenity humans seldom experience in full. We have emotions but we deal with them and do not let them control us.

STAR TREK:
SAREK: Emotions run deep within our race. In many ways, more deeply than in Humans. Logic offers a serenity Humans seldom experience. The control of feelings, so that they do not control you.

Reading DC Fontana's young Spock novel, Vulcan's Glory, might be an education.

 

[Nyotarules]

Didn't Tuvok once say that he doesn't believe in the existence of the katra?

And the Vulcans, you'd think, would embrace diversity (heck, they invented the concept of IDIC) to the point where Vulcans would be just as likely as any other race to have religion, or indeed many of them.

Vulcans, like humans talk one thing and do another, some of them are as prejudiced as the rest of the galaxy. Those kids who teased Spock were not born racist assholes, they learned that attitude from somewhere.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Vulcans, like humans talk one thing and do another, some of them are as prejudiced as the rest of the galaxy. Those kids who teased Spock were not born racist assholes, they learned that attitude from somewhere.

The members of the council where he was supposedly going to accept an appointment to the Vulcan Science Academy in Star Trek 2009 were very much assholes too. I think someone said on another thread that him declining the appointment was the equivalent of flipping them off. If they had just kept their mouths shut about his mother.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I never bought IDIC as a Vulcan philosophy. The Vulcans have always seemed much more exclusive than inclusive. Maybe IDIC isn't what it's cracked up to be when measured by human ideals of diversity, but rather it's a philosophy that the Vulcans lean on in order not to go crazy when having to deal with illogical members of other species.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, emotion is feeling. A sign of something, like indication of emotion that registers in the face, is not the thing itself.
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Vulcans were a comment on the violence of the human race. We are cheated of the message being sent, if we remove the meaning of the idea of a Vulcan, and make it just a matter of their needing emotional control more than us. Vulcans certainly never say they have more violent emotions to suppress than human beings do. (Again, bad revisionist movies that miss the point of Trek and what it is don't count.) They believe humans are too violent and impulsive, and would do well to adopt the same solution they did... pushing down and distancing themselves from feeling/emotion as much as possible.

And Vulcans feel. The simple control and repress those feelings. And those feels are strong.

No, they aren't a comment on the violence of the human race. The Vulcan way isn't presented as superior or better. At times it's presented as lacking.

Here are some quotes about Vulcans by Vulcans

SPOCK: Yes, indeed we do, Mister Stiles. And if Romulans are an offshoot of my Vulcan blood, and I think this likely, then attack becomes even more imperative.
MCCOY: War is never imperative, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: It is for them, Doctor. Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonising period. Savage, even by Earth standards. And if Romulans retain this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show.

KIRK: How was he killed?
MCCOY: His neck was broken. By an expert.
KIRK: Explain.
MCCOY: Well, from the nature and location of the break, I'd say the killer knew exactly where to apply pressure to snap the neck instantly.
KIRK: Who aboard would have that knowledge?
SPOCK: Vulcans. On Vulcan, the method is called tal-shaya. It was considered a merciful form of execution in ancient times.
KIRK: Spock. A short time ago, I broke up an argument between Gav and your father.
SPOCK: Indeed, Captain? Interesting.
MCCOY: Interesting? Spock, do you realise that makes your father the most likely suspect?
SPOCK: Vulcans do not approve of violence.
KIRK: You're saying he couldn't have done it?
SPOCK: No, Captain. I'm merely saying it would be illogical to kill without reason.
KIRK: But if he had a reason, could he have done it?
SPOCK: If there were a reason, my father is quite capable of killing. Logically and efficiently.

MCCOY: Are you trying to kill me, Spock? Is that what you really want? Think. What are you feeling? Rage? Jealousy? Have you ever had those feelings before?
SPOCK: This is impossible. Impossible. I am a Vulcan.
MCCOY: The Vulcan you knew won't exist for another five thousand years. Think, man. What's happening on your planet right now, this very moment?
SPOCK: My ancestors are barbarians. Warlike barbarians.
MCCOY: Who nearly killed themselves off with their own passions. Spock, you're reverting into your ancestors five thousand years before you were born!

So yeah Vulcans have commented on how violent they were and how it was greater that humans. And its still there under that cool exterior.

 

[Nyotarules]

The members of the council where he was supposedly going to accept an appointment to the Vulcan Science Academy in Star Trek 2009 were very much assholes too. I think someone said on another thread that him declining the appointment was the equivalent of flipping them off. If they had just kept their mouths shut about his mother.

Good thing they were racists since his attendance at Starfleet saved their butts. Kirk was not going down there to rescue no Katric Ark. (Another silly plot device, - there is a major earthquake and the Vulcan government stands in a cave, while all hell is breaking loose? Stupid Vulcans!)

 

[Nyotarules]

I never bought IDIC as a Vulcan philosophy. The Vulcans have always seemed much more exclusive than inclusive. Maybe IDIC isn't what it's cracked up to be when measured by human ideals of diversity, but rather it's a philosophy that the Vulcans lean on in order not to go crazy when having to deal with illogical members of other species.

Or IDIC is a concept that (some) Vulcans believe is just for them, so they might have no racial or class issues between Vulcans, but when it comes to aliens/outsiders/offworlders...all bets are off. One can argue Surak's teachings are just for Vulcans (the counterargument to that pov is Vulcan had not experienced First Contact yet when Surak started his philosophy).

 

[The Old Mixer]

But we see precious little diversity among Vulcans...they seem extremely conformist.

 

[Nyotarules]

And Vulcans feel. The simple control and repress those feelings. And those feels are strong.

No, they aren't a comment on the violence of the human race. The Vulcan way isn't presented as superior or better. At times it's presented as lacking.

Here are some quotes about Vulcans by Vulcans




So yeah Vulcans have commented on how violent they were and how it was greater that humans. And its still there under that cool exterior.

ITA. The issue is being logical is not the same as being moral. T'Pol according to B'Lanna in STVOY stated T'Pau was known for her ruthless application of logic. So for example IMO such a mindset would deem it logical for the severely mentally impaired to not reproduce. Logical for society yes, but moral and infringement of said persons rights? That is the debate.
If Sarek thought for the betterment of the Federation he should break Gav's neck he would. The needs of the many outweighing the needs of the one, is a Vulcan point of view that is logical, but not always moral. Sometimes doing what is right is NOT the same as doing what is logical. As Spock learned working besides Kirk.

 

[Nyotarules]

But we see precious little diversity among Vulcans...they seem extremely conformist.

And how diverse is humanity portrayed in the ST universe, most of the human population hails from North America ...right? Even in Fanfiction (I know not canon at all!) every human holiday celebrated is mainly a copy of what takes place in the USA. We only see certain humans and we only see certain vulcans, most of them high ranking and working for the Federation. Not representative at all of the general population. The stories reflect the latent cultural bias of the writers.

 

[Shawnster]

But we see precious little diversity among Vulcans...they seem extremely conformist.

Right down to their haircuts and clothing options.

 

[Nyotarules]

Right down to their haircuts and clothing options.

I blame the TNG writers for that, TOS and their movies were not so rigid. And they were the ones with less money to spend.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

But we see precious little diversity among Vulcans...they seem extremely conformist.

To the point that they all have the same haircut.

 

[Nerys Myk]

In my head Canon Vulcans have more than one hairstyle.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

In my head Canon Vulcans have more than one hairstyle.

Mine, too. There's got to be more than one logical hairstyle out there. What about just slicking it back?

 

[Nyotarules]

My head canon - Vulcans have more than one hairstyle, more than one style of clothes, plomeek soup is disliked by some and just as Federation Standard is English the Vulcan we hear spoken is Vulcan Standard, but other Vulcan languages and dialects exist.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I also have a head canon that includes both Klingon languages (klingonaase and tlhIngan Hol).

(We never actually heard klingonaase spoken onscreen, did we?)

 

[The Old Mixer]

In my head Canon Vulcans have more than one hairstyle.

That's head canon in more than one sense.

 

[Albertese]

I also have a head canon that includes both Klingon languages (klingonaase and tlhIngan Hol).

(We never actually heard klingonaase spoken onscreen, did we?)

In, I wanna say "Looking for Parmak in all the Wrong Places" (if that's the one where Quark is getting Worf's help to seduce a Klingon babe Cyrano de Bergerac style), I believe he refers to whichever language Worf is coaching him in as Klingonese.

I don't know how much Okrandian thlingan Hol that really was.

--Alex