What You Leave Behind

[Therin of Andor]

It strikes me as petty Hollywood being petty Hollywood that they wouldn’t either talk to her about contract negotiations or let her leave and do some guest spots/finale the last season.

According to Richard Arnold and Terry Farrell herself, she wasn't excluded from the finale by choice, and was actually an invited guest at that finale episode's wrap party.

The problem arose from an earlier episode, where Jadzia's voice was heard in flashback, but no one had cleared that particular use with Terry's agent, so a complaint had been lodged, which is normal procedure. So, because that contract dispute was still unresolved, Jadzia could not be seen in the flashbacks of the finale, even if all parties agreed.

 

[Arpy]

According to Richard Arnold and Terry Farrell herself, she wasn't excluded from the finale by choice, and was actually an invited guest at that finale episode's wrap party.

The problem arose from an earlier episode, where Jadzia's voice was heard in flashback, but no one had cleared that particular use with Terry's agent, so a complaint had been lodged, which is normal procedure. So, because that contract dispute was still unresolved, Jadzia could not be seen in the flashbacks of the finale, even if all parties agreed.

Okay, but this is it, the finale. If you're the studio, accept responsibility for the mistake and get her in the show. If you're the executive producer, fight to make that happen even if it's punching above your pay grade. I know I know that's not how these things work, and that too is Hollywood being Hollywood. There are times when expediency is required and people in power can and do make things happen. It didn't here, and that's unfortunate for people who care about the character/show more than another fight at work.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Okay, but this is it, the finale. If you're the studio, accept responsibility for the mistake and get her in the show.

Legally, it was not permitted. Unless the agent withdrew the original complaint, I guess. Yes, the studio accepted they were in error that earlier time, but the complaint was still pending. So they had to proceed without Jadzia, assuming it would eventually get settled, but too late.

 

[fireproof78]

Legally, it was not permitted. Unless the agent withdrew the original complaint, I guess. Yes, the studio accepted they were in error that earlier time, but the complaint was still pending. So they had to proceed without Jadzia, assuming it would eventually get settled, but too late.

Yup. Procedure exists for a reason and had to be abided by. I get it that the appearance would do well for the fans but once the process starts there is an obligation to follow through.

 

[kkt]

I just don't get why it would take so long. "Our bad! Here's what we should have paid you in the first place plus an extra $x00 for your trouble."

 

[Therin of Andor]

I just don't get why it would take so long. "Our bad! Here's what we should have paid you in the first place plus an extra $x00 for your trouble."

The episode had to be written months ahead, but with the knowledge that the previous complaint was still awaiting official arbitration. Arbitration takes time. Although fans were under the impression there was still bad blood between the producers and Terry Farrell, she has explained on stage at conventions that things were quite harmonious by the finale, hence she was at the wrap party.

And if you ever get to see the Ezri/Jadzia double act on stage, do it!

 

[kkt]

I'll keep it in mind, but out on the frontier here, heroes may be made but I'm out of the way of the convention circuit...

 

[Ragitsu]

LUKE
What's in there?

YODA
Only what you take with you.

The most important decision you will make involves that which you leave behind.

 

[Poltargyst]

The most important decision you will make involves that which you leave behind.

Damn that's deep.

 

[Poltargyst]

First of all! DS9 aimed to be different on DAY1, besides bringing back Q and Vash, and a failed re-introduction to Kang, Koloth, and Kor, the series wasn't ever trying to redo TNG. That statement is false. The only reason the 4th thru the 7th season was popular for some fans is because the showrunners dumb down the material, and brought in a TNG alum to cater to those who wouldn't give the show a chance. Berman and co. was too caught into THE BIG THREAT syndrome which started with the success of the Borg and just could never get out of that mindset. There was nothing more scary and compelling than the Cardassian Union and the series best work involved with that Cardassian conflict.

Reducing 3 dimensional adversaries like Vedek Winn and the once Great Gul Dukat into 1 note, twirling mustache cartoon for Liquid terminator and Klingon wannabe's is what you find appealing which for me was lowering the bar. Stripping the complexities of the series and giving it a facelift may have drawn you to the series but it lost so much when it's look upon as a whole. It's amazing how some can be on the edge of their seat watching cgi ships explode from scene to scene from the finale season of DS9 than having a compelling script with complex characters figure out and decipher the layers of the human condition and the consequences of those inner layers from the 1st season.

Well I didn't just like ships exploding. I liked the chemistry and relationships between the characters and the compelling plots. The finale wouldn't have hit so hard if they didn't make me love the characters and their interactions. "Same ol, same ol" is fine if it's done well. There's new stuff in DS9, but I don't know why the show should have to apologize for Klingons and Romulans being in it. Founders, Vorta, Jem'Hadar, Trill, Prophets, Pah-wraiths, Breen weren't enough new stuff for you? The show was fun, seeing the old Klingons was fun.

 

[Orphalesion]

There could have been a season more or even just a television movie/special that ties up the loose ends a bit more tidily than what happened at the show (the ending was very abrupt, same is true with Voyager, but I wouldn't want more Voyager content)
There's still quite a few questions that are unanswered by the time the credits role, not the least of which is the reality of the Alpha/Beta Quadrants after the Dominion War, and I wouldn't have minded seeing Bajor joining the Federation on-screen either. It wouldn't even have had to be the focus of anything, just a scene where, for example, Kyra watches a bit of the ceremony and then is called away to deal with the actual plot.

Of course the difficulty would be to figure out how to continue the show without Sisko or Odo.

 

[fireproof78]

I just don't get why it would take so long. "Our bad! Here's what we should have paid you in the first place plus an extra $x00 for your trouble."

Because these things are spelled out in contracts and must use go-betweens, representatives and have arbitration. If she was a member of any of the guilds or unions they would have their own process to ensure the rules are adhered too. It also requires working around respective schedules, while the show must continue on with the assumption that the complaint will keep the actor out of the production.

I'll keep it in mind, but out on the frontier here, heroes may be made but I'm out of the way of the convention circuit...

Seattle is at least better than Spokane!

 

[Ragitsu]

Of course the difficulty would be to figure out how to continue the show without Sisko or Odo.

Sisko...eh. With Odo, we have the "He's a shapeshifter." excuse on standby if a new actor is cast.

 

[kkt]

Sisko...eh. With Odo, we have the "He's a shapeshifter." excuse on standby if a new actor is cast.

We could but it would seem out of character for Odo to change drastically. His Season 7 shape is what Kira fell in love with.

 

[Arpy]

We could but it would seem out of character for Odo to change drastically. His Season 7 shape is what Kira fell in love with.

Desperate times… Another actor could take the role with more refined makeup to suggest that he’s simply better at faces now. More difficult would be the voice, but you can’t have everything.

Also in the first episode he can start of with the old face, again it’s mostly a mask and CG can do the rest, then transition to the new one. Maybe something similar with the voice?

Sisko is with the Prophets. He can come back next year or in a thousand years. I think Brooks could be enticed to come back with the right script, but, eh, DS9 has a lot of characters to play with.

 

[dupersuper]

a failed re-introduction to Kang, Koloth, and Kor,

Say what now??

Also, even ignoring the baffling appearance of the word failed, that would surely be them recreating TOS, not TNG...

 

[Orphalesion]

Sisko...eh. With Odo, we have the "He's a shapeshifter." excuse on standby if a new actor is cast.

But why would he come back for "Season 8" or a TV Movie when he left at the end of Season 7 to...uh...was it to teach the Founders how to love or something like that?

 

[WAMTNG]

Great thread, lovely tribute to DS9 at the head of it! Many thanks for kicking this off, @Poltargyst.

Just want to make the obvious point: TNG pulled in 10 million viewers at its peak in the US alone, while DS9 pulled in 4 million (not counting the pilot, which brought in TOS and TNG fans who had fallen by the wayside, and so enjoyed inflated viewership). The commercial case for a DS9 movie just wasn't there like it was for TNG, especially since Patrick Stewart's star continued to rise after the show finished.

I love both the shows, and if I prefer DS9 (and I most certainly do) it doesn't dint my love of TNG any more than my love of Patrick Troughton detracts from the wonder of Tom Baker in Doctor Who. It's a big universe, and there's room for many things within it.

But I'm personally glad there were no DS9 movies. I don't think the Trek movies are that great - I was glad to go the cinema and watch every single one of them (even if Nemesis was... extremely disappointing), but they're rather like double episodes that have been constrained by the requirements of the movie format, a limitation I could well do without. For instance, I don't need a one-on-one fight at the end of my stories, but Hollywood does for reasons I never quite understood.

I also might be in the minority in not wanting any further DS9 shows. I don't want a revival, I'm sure as heck not looking for a reboot! I'm delighted with the show the way it is, and I don't need anything more. Perhaps this makes me an unusual DS9 fan... but I would rather not wager on any further DS9 material adding to, rather than taking from, what DS9 achieved. It is what we left behind... and it is always there for us when we want to revisit.

 

[kkt]

Yes... if someone's making a WW II movie, it doesn't generally end with a fistfight between Hitler and Stalin. If they're making a Civil War picture, it doesn't end with a rough and tumble between Grant and Lee. That's not how these fights are fought. The Kirk-Finnegan fight in "Shore Leave" worked well at the time, even though retconning Kirk's childhood mean that Kirk was about 12 when Fennegan was an upperclassman at the Academy, but it's about the only one.

 

[Farscape One]

I love both the shows, and if I prefer DS9 (and I most certainly do) it doesn't dint my love of TNG any more than my love of Patrick Troughton detracts from the wonder of Tom Baker in Doctor Who. It's a big universe, and there's room for many things within it.

If I could like a paragraph a hundred times, I would do so with this one. DS9 is my favorite, but TNG is what got me fully into scifi. IDIC...

(And my favorite classic Doctor is also Troughton, with Tom Baker running right behind him.)