What would you have done differently for Season 2?

[Starflight]

Season's over, seems like a good time to have a thread like this. What kind of things would you have changed for this season? Obviously you have to keep broadly to the existing plot, with the Red Angel. You can't say "the Discovery explodes on episode 1 with all hands lost and we cut to the Enterprise and follow them" or anything off-the-rails like that.

Some things I might have done:

-Contact Starfleet at some point. The whole "we're fugitives!!!" stuff lasted about thirty seconds and didn't affect much, and the idea that Starfleet (bar the Enterprise) fail to show up to the grand battle that decides the fate of the galaxy (but the Klingons and fucking Kelpiens/Ba'ul of all people make an appearance) is just ridiculous. Was anyone on the Federation homeworlds, anyone in Starfleet other than two ships, doing anything much at all during this season?

-Dig deeper into the Georgiou/Burnham dynamic. Given that her relationship with Mirror Burnham seems to be Georgiou's whole motivation for sticking around, we sure have very little idea what's really going on. We know that Burnham and Prime Georgiou really got on well and that's about it. Investigate the parent-child dynamic they might have had, the mentor-student dynamic, even throw in a romantic aspect if you want, just give us something more to get stuck into with that. Burnham's reaction to having to work with a sort of twisted doppelganger of someone she loved and respected seems like a great opportunity to bring out her character.

-More/better focus on Culber. When he was resurrected but came back sort of distant and "wrong", I was reminded of something I read about the Voyager episode where Neelix dies (yay) and revives which leads to a religious crisis. A very early draft which was ultimately rejected, as stated by Fuller:

"We were going to do this Pet Sematary episode where Ensign Wildman goes on a shuttle mission and dies, and Seven of Nine brings her back to life using Borg technology, except that now she's 'zombie mom.' She's not all there. Wildman's more connected with death than life, and her only link to life is through her daughter. She wants to kill her daughter, though, to bring her back to 'life' so she can share that experience with her. Really a creepy, morbid story! I thought, 'This is going to be so much fun to write. There has been nothing on Star Trek remotely like that, ever.'

Is that cool or what? Culber's basically a spore zombie, there could have been a hell of a lot of properly chilling horror stuff about identity and reality there - none of which need have changed the happy ending we've ultimately gotten.

Any ideas?

 

[Krandor]

Not make Michael and her mom the red angels. Was a bit too much for me even though it was predictable Michael would be involved.

 

[Rahul]

1. No big reset or future jump at the end. Only a handwave of future person "I've seen countless timelines unfold, some in which where you (Burnham) didn't even existed. And Control won in all of them!"

2. Don't have Section 31 be the cause of the future A.I. - have it be a nameless A.I. from the future, that just took over Control (and made Section 31 it's pawns) like it did with Airam and Leland.

3. Make sure that the "sphere data" is not just a collection of stuff witnessed by a weird space wedgie - but have the sphere itself have been a giant, planetsized supercomputer that was about to get blow'ed up (by a supernova or something), because it's too big to move itself. Built a bit of lore around it: In the past, it traded with many species, ressources against databases, and thus become a sentient amalgam of many different species' A. I. versions.

4. Neither present day Federation, Section 31 nor the Klingons working on time travel technology. Instead, the "red angel" was a being from the future that for his entire life fought the A.I. through time. When he started to die of old age, he gave the suit to Mama Burnham, to continue this fight.

5. Make a stupid reference to ENT, where the future A.I. talks to his underlings in the present in the form of "future guy", like he did with the Suliban.

6. Wrap the whole thing up in a super weird predestination paradox: The future A.I. "wins" and Leland merges with the sphere data. But because the sphere data has observed Discovery's fight for the future, it itself has become more benelovent, and instead of becoming the evil future A.I., it turns Leland into the first red angel, who then fucks off into the closest parallel universe to protect that from it's own version of the future A.I. as well.

 

[Starflight]

Leland being the angel is a great call. One of the things that bothers me about the Red Angel plot is that Burnham was basically forced into it because of the circumstances of her birth, which annoyingly strips our heroes of a large amount of agency. Having Leland be the angel really reframes the story in an interesting way, and I might go as far as to remove the Dr Burnham character, as much as I liked her.

 

[Rahul]

I really would have liked the red angel to be a legacy character - the A.I. doesn't age, so it has all the time in the universe. But the good guy has to age, and after a while simply unable to continue that fight, so has to groom the next person to step into the suit.

In such circumstances I really like the idea of Mom Burnham being in the suit. It felt just too much for her also inventing it in the first place. Talk about small-universe syndrome regarding Burnhams' parent- and mentor-figures.

@ CBS: If you need some easy fixes for story-problems in season 3 from some random dude on the internet, hit me up!

 

[ITDUDE]

Less handwaving writing:
-What have first seven red bursts to do with Red Angel(s)? If Michael created them all later, who what created them all at same time in beginning.
-Who/how moved the church to Terralysium?
-How did Michael Red Angel stop the ba'ul from wiping out Kelpians
-How did Ash/Voq stand besides L'Rell without both of them being killed for treason.
-What happened to one time use time crystal at the end? She used it atleast 7 times.
-Did Klingons sign the "shh.. we don't talk about Discovery" accords? Did Mudd?

And so many more exampkes...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Never mention the word "canon" in BTS material. Ignore the idea of "syncing up".

 

[SJGardner]

I'm really only having some half-thought-out ideas, with many of them being borne of mid-season daydreaming and the like, but I would've had them transfer the Sphere data into the new suit like they originally planned and have the season end on a cliffhanger with Burnham being lost in time, maybe not even 1000 years in the future. The last cliffhanger scene could've shown where she actually ended up. But I'd really write myself into a corner with this when it comes to planning out the plot for Season 3, wouldn't I?

On a different note, I would've avoided making it look like Control was fully contained within Leland at the end, and I would've simply treated him as an avatar of the AI instead, which the show has already done with Gant. I would've fleshed out how far it has spread in Starfleet's systems and would've used that as a basis for how it eventually was neutralized. The way the whole thing just got a short confirmation from that bureucrat bugs me and makes me think there was a story there worth telling.

 

[xJaeihx]

While I loved Pike and Beardie Spock, I would have preferred if they had continued on from season one. Season two didn't even really connect to the first season at all. They should have went to get their new Captain that was waiting on them on Vulcan, and went from there. As it stands now, there are things from season one that we'll probably never get answers on due to the whole future jump rubbish (which they really shouldn't have done until a later season at least). Now it's going to feel like yet another soft reboot of the series. I'm also burned out on the lack of Andorians and Tellarites. The makeup looks amazing, the two actors they use for the roles are awesome - season two they gave us two unnamed S31 Admirals that were only in one episode for like 90 seconds that got made into popsicles by the next episode. It has been pretty disappointing.

 

[Norsehound]

Some scattered thoughts;

- Guiding point of the season: Predestination vs free agency, religion vs science, faith vs reason. The debate of both without necessarily a clear answer. Each character would come to their own conclusions based on these questions.

-The Red Angel is a malevolent being that is guiding the heroes to do something as pawns in the distant past, possibly the Last of the Preserver acting against the preserver's destroyers. On the face of it there is good in the acts Discovery is set out to do, but hints and clues suggest there is a bigger plan that results in the destruction of the Federation several years from now. The Burnhams and Section 31 are not connected to this time traveling technology in any way.

-Spock's contact with the angel is maintained, but Spock is not as willing of a pawn in the Angel's plan, and is able to give insights into the angel to defeat it.

-The climax is confronting the Red Angel, preserving all the good that Discovery has done while preventing the Red Angel's plan from ultimately unfolding. Pike may or may not have a distant glimpse of his future, but defeating the Red Angel's predestined history gives him hope that the future is not set in stone.

-Part of the victory against the Red Angel involves using the Spore drive in deeper ways than performed during the war; crossing dimensions and even time in short bursts. First it's accidental, but then deliberate at the climax. Discovery is the only ship capable of doing this because of the unique nature of the Spore Drive.

-Culber's distance is maintained in coming back, serving as a parable to be careful what you wish for; if it comes true it may not be in the way that you intend it.

-During the climactic battle across space and time against the red angel the Spore Drive gives out, Culber may be necessary to getting the drive working again given how he's reconstituted from spores- possibly at the expense of his own life.

-Nothing is shown of Klingon politics, rather than under-serve the Klingons. They may return in Season 3. Hints dropped that L'rell is the only thing keeping the Klingons back from re-igniting the war and solidifying their conquests- doing this by focusing on new technology.

-The Ba'ul's connection to the Preservers is another hint about the Red Angel, revealing the Ba'ul were given the technology by the Preservers for some purpose. The Kelpians are somehow connected to the Red Angel's far-reaching plan, possibly as one of the races responsible for the destruction of the Preservers.

 

[Danny99]

Cut out the Section 31 stuff and turn the AI into something that doesn't scream Borg! It is just like the Mirror Universe in Season 1: taking an element that is not universally loved by the fanbase and making it an integral part of the season.

The Klingons have some kind of time crystal sanctuary and working on time travel stuff was silly, including the "we found it was too dangerous, so we stopped." Would danger really stop a Klingon from doing something?

I believed during Enterprise and still do during Discovery that just because it isn't referenced in the future doesn't mean it flies in the face of continuity. While I do believe they could've done everything they wanted to do in the first two seasons set post-Voyager, I hate the time jump and that for a second straight season, we end on a "don't tell anyone this happened" note. Pike was a great nugget to use as someone we knew nothing about and expand on him (one of my favourite characters of the season), but there has to be so many other ways to go besides shoehorning this into Spock's personal history with the Burnham speech in the finale about finding someone who is so different and gravitate toward them.

There is good writing here, there are good concepts, pieces, but the writers have just failed to bring it all together. If Discovery is now stuck in the future, the first two seasons, while good in their own right, will stick out a sore thumb.

 

[cultcross]

The Klingons have some kind of time crystal sanctuary and working on time travel stuff was silly, including the "we found it was too dangerous, so we stopped." Would danger really stop a Klingon from doing something?

I didn't mind that; like how Worf always used to lose fights to show how tough someone was, I took it as shorthand for "this stuff is so stupidly dangerous even the Klingons knew to leave it alone". It has shades of the old sci-fi idea that humans can't be trusted with technology because we're too dumb to just not use something.


Changes wise, my main concern is the way the story of the red angel doesn't make sense, and so my main focus would be tidying that up and tightening the story so that it didn't just feel like a string of contrivances to get the plot where the authors wanted to go. I would scrap section 31s involvement entirely; they do nothing that couldn't be filled by normal Starfleet ships, a Badmiral, etc. I would make the original red angel not Burnham's mom although I'm fine with Burnham taking on the mantle later by choice as that gives her agency in the story. And I think I would cut L'Rell/Tyler entirely, they're a season 1 leftover that doesn't really belong. The Boreth story works without them.

 

[jfordny]

Never mention the word "canon" in BTS material. Ignore the idea of "syncing up".

This, plus I would not have done the time jump. Some of us actually liked the pre-TOS era.

But it will be hilarious if Discovery runs across the Borg, the Cardassians, etc. in Season 3, and there's still complaining about how the treatment fits into canon. If the showrunners think they won't have to deal with whining from some section of the fanbase constantly, they're wrong.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I'd have either had the Enterprise obliterated in the final battle, or had her end up in the future with Discovery - and stay there. And after the final scene in the season, I'd have had a black screen with white letters that simply said "Sync This." And then I'd have rubbed my hands together with glee, and watched the message boards explode.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Also, I'd have had the original Red Angel be Dr. Sam Beckett, played by Scott Bakula. With bare minimal explanation.

 

[cultcross]

But it will be hilarious if Discovery runs across the Borg, the Cardassians, etc. in Season 3, and there's still complaining about how the treatment fits into canon. If the showrunners think they won't have to deal with whining from some section of the fanbase constantly, they're wrong

The next whinge will be if they ever make it back to the 23rdC, how their knowledge of the future is kept quiet. One of the reasons I'm fairly sure they won't be back.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Part of me really would have liked Pike to go full-on fundamentalist Christian vs. Burnham's hard-core athiesm following Angel experiences.

But I was very satisfied with the story they told. Only a few plot holes would be fixed (how did Spock draw the seven signals when he melded with Mother Burnham and not Michael? How did Michael stop the Ba'ul destroying the Kelpians? How did Sarek and Amanda beat the S31 fleet to Discovery?) If I were rewriting it.

Oh, and I'd tone down the Michael worship by about 20%.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The next whinge will be if they ever make it back to the 23rdC, how their knowledge of the future is kept quiet. One of the reasons I'm fairly sure they won't be back.

Discovery has had so much creative upheaval in it's short life, I wouldn't be surprised if they return to the 23rd century in 2 or three seasons, even if they have zero plans to at present.

 

[Phoenix219]

Also, I'd have had the original Red Angel be Dr. Sam Beckett, played by Scott Bakula. With bare minimal explanation.

What explanation is needed, other then Future Guy? Archer has been Beckett in his descendants body the entire time!

 

[Vger23]

The Red Angel was a mystery being or phenomenon of some sort. Something advanced and perhaps beyond our comprehension. Not Burnham's mother in a tech suit.

Gag the Control / Secetion 31 subplot. Focus on the primary mystery.

No "we need to go 930 years into the future to protect TEH CANNON!!!1!1! ending.