What would Mirror Neelix/Kes/Seven have been like?

[F. King Daniel]

That was dumb, but one isolated case doesn't disprove the pattern shown by every other bit of evidence.

My theory is that Felix based the holographic Vic Fontaine on a real-life 24th-century actor he hired as a reference model. And this was the actor's Mirror counterpart.

You gave it more thought than the people who made it did.

In the Prime universe, sexuality is a matter of personal affinity and affection, so it would be shaped more by individual preference. But in the Mirror Universe, sexuality is a weapon, a tool of domination and control. And that means it's not about who you're physically or emotionally attracted to, but whom you want to exert power over or want to win as an ally. So its expression would probably be largely independent of gender, more so than in Prime.

DS9 treated homosexuality as something exclusive to either weird alien cultures or the twisted mirror universe. It wasn't until 2016 and 18 that we saw gay relationships presented in the Trek universe as normal. I don't see the point in trying to excuse it in-universe.

 

[Christopher]

And some of the characters actually weren’t all that different from their Prime counterparts.

I'd say the majority of the characters were largely similar to their Prime counterparts, just tweaked in certain ways. Kirk and Sisko were still leaders, as were Lorca and Georgiou. Spock was still a science officer. McCoy was still a doctor, Scotty still an engineer. Stamets was just as much a scientist and equally interested in researching the mycelial network. And so on.

You gave it more thought than the people who made it did.

Hello, have you met me? That's kind of my job.

DS9 treated homosexuality as something exclusive to either weird alien cultures or the twisted mirror universe. It wasn't until 2016 and 18 that we saw gay relationships presented in the Trek universe as normal. I don't see the point in trying to excuse it in-universe.

I don't excuse the creators out-of-universe. But as a writer, I have to live with it and try to justify it in-universe in a way that's independent of the real-world prejudices behind it. They're two separate levels of engagement with a work, and they don't always correlate.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Interesting discussion.

So, for the sake of argument, we know the Mirror Universe had spore technology, they just used it differently. However, there is no reason they won't figure it out now that they have seen how Discovery works.

With access to such technology, they can now explore every quadrant of the galaxy. They are not isolationists but rather an aggressive empire. They are not satisfied with their own backyard, they want everyone else and their desire to conquer and subjugate other species is a driving ambition.

With nothing preventing them from entering the Delta Quadrant, I'm not sure that their influence would not be felt there. Also they would have encountered the Borg a lot sooner, since the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant. As for 7, humans are subjugated in DS9's stories so I'm not sure where that leaves her story.

Just a thought.

 

[Christopher]

With access to such technology, they can now explore every quadrant of the galaxy. They are not isolationists but rather an aggressive empire. They are not satisfied with their own backyard, they want everyone else and their desire to conquer and subjugate other species is a driving ambition.

With nothing preventing them from entering the Delta Quadrant, I'm not sure that their influence would not be felt there. Also they would have encountered the Borg a lot sooner, since the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant. As for 7, humans are subjugated in DS9's stories so I'm not sure where that leaves her story.

Except that's not going to happen. We already know the future of the Mirror Universe from TOS and DS9. Obviously spore drive is not used in either the Prime or Mirror timeline beyond the 2250s, so surely it will eventually be established that there's some reason why it's impractical for regular use. In the case of Prime, there are several reasons already in evidence -- its use requires either torturing sentient beings or engaging in illegal genetic augmentation, and its use also threatens to destroy the mycelial network and allegedly the multiverse, which is a pretty damn good reason to shut the whole thing down. In the case of Mirror, their one mycelial reactor and the sole scientist who understood it were destroyed, so they might well have no means to recreate it.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Except that's not going to happen. We already know the future of the Mirror Universe from TOS and DS9. Obviously spore drive is not used in either the Prime or Mirror timeline beyond the 2250s, so surely it will eventually be established that there's some reason why it's impractical for regular use. In the case of Prime, there are several reasons already in evidence -- its use requires either torturing sentient beings or engaging in illegal genetic augmentation, and its use also threatens to destroy the mycelial network and allegedly the multiverse, which is a pretty damn good reason to shut the whole thing down. In the case of Mirror, their one mycelial reactor and the sole scientist who understood it were destroyed, so they might well have no means to recreate it.

I can see it not being used in the Prime Universe. Ethical issues. They don't exist in the Mirror Universe. We do know the fate of the Empire in DS9's timeline but I'm not sure TOS is that definitive. There is good stretch of time between TOS and DS9 and one part of the Empire may not know what the other is doing and I doubt it is a topic of conversation every day.

Thing is what one scientist can do, it's not long before someone else replicates it because once technology reaches that point, other geniuses start figuring it out. Look at the Prime Universe. At least one other ship was experimenting with spore drives at the same time. Stamet wasn't the only scientist trying to work out the bugs. Maybe we will have to wait for another foray into the Mirror Universe to know definitively.

Sigh...not my favorite arcs.

 

[Christopher]

We do know the fate of the Empire in DS9's timeline but I'm not sure TOS is that definitive. There is good stretch of time between TOS and DS9 and one part of the Empire may not know what the other is doing and I doubt it is a topic of conversation every day.

Except that if the Empire had had spore drive, the Alliance could probably never have conquered it.

Thing is what one scientist can do, it's not long before someone else replicates it because once technology reaches that point, other geniuses start figuring it out.

In real life, sure. But in Star Trek, whenever a new technology turns out to have a problem, it's completely abandoned and never heard from again -- multitronics, soliton wave travel, subspace transporters, you name it. The one exception being holodecks, which they kept using despite constant problems because they were built into the format from the start of TNG. The status quo rules, scientific logic be damned. That's doubly true for a prequel.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Except that if the Empire had had spore drive, the Alliance could probably never have conquered it.




In real life, sure. But in Star Trek, whenever a new technology turns out to have a problem, it's completely abandoned and never heard from again -- multitronics, soliton wave travel, subspace transporters, you name it. The one exception being holodecks, which they kept using despite constant problems because they were built into the format from the start of TNG. The status quo rules, scientific logic be damned. That's doubly true for a prequel.

Lol well you have me there. Star Trek is infamous for dropping the ball. I'm not sure how they managed to get anything to be honest. It must be all that help the Vulcans gave us.

 

[Dukhat]

Question: Was Mirror-Vic's name mentioned in dialogue? Because if it wasn't, for all we know it could have been Felix himself.

 

[Sophie74656]

Question: Was Mirror-Vic's name mentioned in dialogue? Because if it wasn't, for all we know it could have been Felix himself.

Rom and Quark call him Vic and then Julian calls him Fontain

ROM: What's the rush?
EZRI: This is a rebel base and we're working for the Alliance.
(Enter Vic Fontaine with guns.)
ROM: Vic?
VIC: I thought you two were dead.
ROM: We are!
QUARK: You're not a hologram.
VIC: A what?
(Bashir and rebels rush in, shooting.)
BASHIR: Throw put down your phasers, Fontaine!
VIC: I'll see you in hell first.
(Bashir kills Vic.)
QUARK: I can't believe it. Julian just shot Vic Fontaine.

 

[Christopher]

They called him Vic, but did he answer to it? For all we know, his name was Ralph Fontaine.

 

[Dukhat]

Or Felix Fontaine.

 

[catshadowsi8]

They called him Vic, but did he answer to it? For all we know, his name was Ralph Fontaine.

If he looks like Vic Fontane than he could be called Smokey the Bear and it would still be him. Lol

 

[Christopher]

If he looks like Vic Fontane than he could be called Smokey the Bear and it would still be him. Lol

As I said, "Vic Fontaine" could've been a fictional holo-character modeled on a real 24th-century person, and sharing his surname.

 

[Refuge]

Um... (just insert this into middle of fresh conversation that is actually quite interesting but ) Mirror Seven would have been relaxed, in a sloppy tracksuit and a tad annoying. OMG she would be like that drip on Discovery - Tilly

Mirror Neelix would be self-involved and up himself. OMG he would be like Lorca on Discovery!

Mirror Kes would also be self-involved but obsessed with thinking the universe revolved around her and apt to making boring speeches. OMG just like Michael on Discovery.

 

[cosmic mouse]

mirror universe...so seven would be inefficient? Kes would be inadequate and neelix would be not annoying? *shrug* I'm not good at this game.

I'm no good at it either ... first thing I thoughtof was a fairytale version of Seven in a pink ballerina outfit surrounded by timid woodland creatures.

 

[Catarina]

I'm no good at it either ... first thing I thoughtof was a fairytale version of Seven in a pink ballerina outfit surrounded by timid woodland creatures.

I like that

 

[Prax]

This may be relevant. It appears that the Terran Empire does/did have a presence/conquests in the Delta Quadrant.

 

[Sophie74656]

There are books where the mirror Voyager chatacters appear. I haven't read them but I know that B'elanna basically has Tom as a sex slave

 

[catshadowsi8]

There are books where the mirror Voyager chatacters appear. I haven't read them but I know that B'elanna basically has Tom as a sex slave

Really! Ok that's a little surprising.

 

[Christopher]

There are books where the mirror Voyager chatacters appear. I haven't read them but I know that B'elanna basically has Tom as a sex slave

That's probably the Dark Passions duology by Susan Wright. It's a different continuity from the later series of Mirror Universe books that are part of Pocket's overall "novelverse."