What Would Jellico Do?

[Paul Weaver]

The TNG series bible specifically says starfleet is not a military organisation, and this is repeated on screen multiple times throughout the franchise.

Perhaps during the Dominion war at least some ships were drafted into a military structure. Just like the RMS Queen Mary was drafted into military use during World War 2, just like millions of people were drafted into the military

But you're right, that's a distraction. Even if you take the line that Starfleet is a gun-toting military organisation, even if you then believe it's based on the US Navy and can thus infer 24th century Starfleet procedure from examples of late 20th/early 21st century American military procedure, Jellico is terrible as the commander of the Enterprise in the CoC situation

 

[Orphalesion]

But you're right, that's a distraction. Even if you take the line that Starfleet is a gun-toting military organisation, even if you then believe it's based on the US Navy and can thus infer 24th century Starfleet procedure from examples of late 20th/early 21st century American military procedure, Jellico is terrible as the commander of the Enterprise in the CoC situation

Just to clarify, i don't see Starfleet as purely or even primarily militaristic. It's more that i think that one of the many things they do is act as armed forces/peace keeping forces etc. when needed.

 

[Oddish]

He's not as terrible as the episode's music makes him out to be. Nothing wrong with beefing up defenses, doing weapon drills, and stopping a Cardassian invasion cold with some cunning mine-work. Counselor Troi should be dressing like an officer, Picard was on the kind of covert mission that you're supposed to disavow, and what the hell was Jellico supposed to do with Picard's book if not return it to him?

However, the previous posts are dead-on: he didn't build rapport all that well, he disrupted ship operations, and he got all cranky when Riker did his frickin' job (pointing out an action he saw as a mistake). He's not a monster, he's not Gary Stu. He's somewhere in between.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The TNG series bible specifically says starfleet is not a military organisation, and this is repeated on screen multiple times throughout the franchise.

Ever heard the old saying that "actions speak louder than words?"

Various Starfleet officers have claimed that Starfleet "isn't a military organisation" and certainly their default RoE are much more defensive than is typical of the US armed forces (although not internationally), but since no later than the middle of the first season of TOS (Balance of Terror), Starfleet have acted as the Federation's armed forces and have consistently done so in every show since.

 

[Oddish]

I agree. Starfleet might be paramilitary instead of military because its main purpose is exploration and diplomacy, but it does military work, possesses military hardware, and it follows a military command structure.

 

[dupersuper]

More importantly: what would Brian Boitano do?

 

[Paul Weaver]

I’m sure he’d kick an ass or two

 

[Elias Vaughn]

Much like Jellico, Brian Boitano wouldn't take shit from anybody.

 

[Orphalesion]

However unlike Jellico, Brian Boitano has the skill and badassery to justify his overly large ego.

Like remember when Brian Boitano fought that 80-foot tall Borg Queen while riding a unicorn, and made it back in time to Earth to win gold at the Olympics?

 

[Oddish]

But could he win a fight with Kathryn Janeway? After all, she told Death to go back to hell, scared Fear to death, and blew off Q like he was some random drunk guy trying to pick her up at a bar.

 

[Ragitsu]

Who?

 

[Orphalesion]

Who?

Brian Boitano. From what I understand he was an American olympic figure skater in either the 80s or 90s.
In the Southpark Movie there's a musical number called "What would Brian Boitano Do?" where the boys take him as their role model and claim that he did such things as fighting bears with his fire-breath, fighting the evil Robot King in the year 3000 and building the pyramids while beating up Kublai Khan (because Brian Boitano doesn't take shit from anybody)

 

[Paul Weaver]

Brian Dennehy?

 

[dupersuper]

Brian Dennehy?

He'd just raise Commander Shelby.

 

[Oddish]

Speaking of which, can you imagine Shelby as Captain Jellico's first officer? Not sure which one I'd feel sorry for...

 

[Orphalesion]

Brian Dennehy?

What? No! Not f*****g Brian Dennehy! Get out of here!

Speaking of which, can you imagine Shelby as Captain Jellico's first officer? Not sure which one I'd feel sorry for...

It would be an endless vicious circle of Jellico demoting Shelby, only for her to force herself into the position of First Officer again. And again. And again.

 

[Ragitsu]

Brian Boitano. From what I understand he was an American olympic figure skater in either the 80s or 90s.
In the Southpark Movie there's a musical number called "What would Brian Boitano Do?" where the boys take him as their role model and claim that he did such things as fighting bears with his fire-breath, fighting the evil Robot King in the year 3000 and building the pyramids while beating up Kublai Khan (because Brian Boitano doesn't take shit from anybody)

Oh. I thought I was missing a reference concerning a Babylon 5 character.

 

[Disco]

Trust is a two-way street. The crew should have trusted that regardless of his demeanor Jellico was given command for a reason, and even if they weren't sure what his intentions were, they should have trusted that he knew what he was doing. They didn't offer him that trust, so he was under no obligation to trust them.

The changes were required because He required them. That's how command works.


He had the right to make changes that suited only him. How the crew reacted to the changes was not his problem.

And some of the best leaders in history were complete assholes. The commander you'll go to hell and back for is mostly a TV and movie trope. Great leadership in war is defined mostly by achieving objectives. The subordinates' opinion of the commander while he's achieving them is a secondary consideration.

Trust is earned not given.

Changes need to have a reason or people will question them.

He did not have the right to make changes that suited only him. He had a responsibility to ensure the ship was prepared. His changes did not achieve that.

History has plenty examples of subordinates going to hell and back for their commanders.

 

[Takeru]

He did not have the right to make changes that suited only him.

Yes, he did, he was the commanding officer.

 

[Admiral2]

Trust is earned not given.

Subordinates owe their commanders respect. Trust is a side issue. Anyway, a commander can't earn respect unless they're given a chance to earn it. The crew didn't give Jellico that chance.

Changes need to have a reason or people will question them.

They can question all they like, but if the change is a legal order they have no right not to obey it, at once. The crew was insubordinate.

He did not have the right to make changes that suited only him.

Yes he did. He was the commanding officer. That's part of the job description.

He had a responsibility to ensure the ship was prepared. His changes did not achieve that.

His changes were not implemented in a timely fashion. We have no way of knowing the upsides or downsides if they had been. We only know the crew was incapable or unwilling to make the changes.

History has plenty examples of subordinates going to hell and back for their commanders.

And plenty more examples of subordinates being indifferent to who commands them. Soldiers join and stay in fights for a myriad of reasons. A military force is not a cult of personality, nor should it be.