What would happen if a FPS & an RPG had a baby?

[FordSVT]

don't the latest Call of Duties and Battlefield's have skill up's also? granted this brings up a good point, what components are needed for a game to be an RPG?

It certainly requires more than being able to add talent points to certain skill sets. To which we segue into...

Ohhh ohhh lets not forget Bioshock!

Love it, but completely linear, no quests, no ability to create a character. You can modify your abilities with talent points, and that's it. Doesn't count as a FPS/RPG hybrid IMO. Emphasis on a coherent plot does not make an RPG either.

I'd say an RPG requires a set of quests to be completed, some mandatory, others not. NPCs to interact with (talk, give quests, buy/sell/trade). There should be a rather in-depth inventory and skill system; the ability to either configure a party or personalize a character. Most of them have open world exploration of some type (like Final Fantasy and Mass Effect and Fallout 3).

They've already been used as examples, but hold Fallout 3 or Mass Effect (best FPS/RPG hybrids) up to Halo 3, CoD4 and Bioshock (premier FPSs of this past gen) and you can pretty clearly see where we can draw the line.

By that definition you would have to completely discount many many JRPGS, such as Eternal Sonata and Final Fantasy X. An RPG is exactly like it says in the title. A Role Playing Game. Having a character and building up said character. So long as you have that, it counts, so no, I can't see where you draw the line because I disagree with you

Fine, CoD4 was last year's most popular RPG.

Your logic claims that a whale is a fish because it swims underwater, and a Ford Explorer is a sports car because it has four wheels and can hit 60 mph faster than a Mazda MX-5.

If "playing a role" is all it takes to be a RPG, then almost EVERY game is an RPG. You play "roles" in all of them!

 

[clint g]

Actually my logic is that a role playing game is one in which you have a character and build up that character. In a game like Bioshock which is the merger of genres you have first person shooting but you also have character development. You choose how your character changes and you essentially level up. You modify your equipment to suit how you want to play, you modify the player by choosing and purchasing powers. All of those are things that you do in a traditional RPG except in the case of Bioshock its done from a first person perspective. The only difference between Bioshock and more traditional RPGs is that it doesn't have an open world, but even then I can list a dozen RPGs off the top of my head that don't have an open world either so to use that as you're justification for excluding it makes no sense


EDIT: but yes, almost all games are RPGs now. Thats the direction gaming is heading in

 

[Arrqh]

EDIT: but yes, almost all games are RPGs now. Thats the direction gaming is heading in

No, many games have RPG elements. RPG's are more then just building up a character.

Bioshock certainly had some RPG elements, but they were very light... not nearly on the level that I would describe it as an RPGFPS. It was more of an (rpg)FPS. Even if you just look at it as percent of gameplay... the vast majority of the game played out like an FPS, and every now and then you could make fairly minor choices in how you built your character that had fairly minor impacts on the main portions of the game. Being able to customize and build your character is certainly a gaming element that we can attribute to the RPG genre... but it is hardly it's single core, defining characteristic. But actually, that's something that Bioshock was very good at... giving you the illusion that your choices were a lot more meaningful then they actually were. And the less meaningful your choices are, the less RPG it is.

And furthermore, FordSVT's earlier definition didn't exclude JRPG's at all, so I'm not sure why you picked up that impression. Every one of the things he mentioned can be found in FFX, for example. Of course JRPG's are basically a genre in themselves with many core differences from WRGP's.

 

[PKerr]

Only on Trek BBS can folks over analyze EVERYTHING.

 

[clint g]

EDIT: but yes, almost all games are RPGs now. Thats the direction gaming is heading in

No, many games have RPG elements. RPG's are more then just building up a character.

Bioshock certainly had some RPG elements, but they were very light... not nearly on the level that I would describe it as an RPGFPS. It was more of an (rpg)FPS. Even if you just look at it as percent of gameplay... the vast majority of the game played out like an FPS, and every now and then you could make fairly minor choices in how you built your character that had fairly minor impacts on the main portions of the game. Being able to customize and build your character is certainly a gaming element that we can attribute to the RPG genre... but it is hardly it's single core, defining characteristic. But actually, that's something that Bioshock was very good at... giving you the illusion that your choices were a lot more meaningful then they actually were. And the less meaningful your choices are, the less RPG it is.

I never said it had to be. I said that Bioshock is an RPG/FPS hybrid, which it is. That doesnt mean it has to have every aspect of an RPG

And furthermore, FordSVT's earlier definition didn't exclude JRPG's at all, so I'm not sure why you picked up that impression. Every one of the things he mentioned can be found in FFX, for example. Of course JRPG's are basically a genre in themselves with many core differences from WRGP's.

but completely linear, no quests, no ability to create a character

Describes many, many JRPGs that have come out over the past few years

 

[Arrqh]

I never said it had to be. I said that Bioshock is an RPG/FPS hybrid, which it is. That doesnt mean it has to have every aspect of an RPG

And again, the RPG elements are so slight that to call it a hybrid is a misnomer. It has some RPG elements for sure, but no more so then your average FPS these days. There is certainly some blurring of the lines between genres, but they're still pretty distinct right now and Bioshock is clearly on the FPS side... not stradling the gap. Right now that belongs to ARPG's like Mass Effect and Fallout 3 which have clearly strong shooter elements and strong RPG elements. For a game to be a true hybrid, it needs to be strong on both. Bioshock ain't.

but completely linear, no quests, no ability to create a character

Describes many, many JRPGs that have come out over the past few years

Well that wasn't all he said, for instance:

I'd say an RPG requires a set of quests to be completed, some mandatory, others not.

There should be a rather in-depth inventory and skill system; the ability to either configure a party or personalize a character.

Most of them have open world exploration of some type

All of those things you'll find in, say, FFX.

 

[clint g]

I never said it had to be. I said that Bioshock is an RPG/FPS hybrid, which it is. That doesnt mean it has to have every aspect of an RPG

And again, the RPG elements are so slight that to call it a hybrid is a misnomer.

No its not

It has some RPG elements for sure, but no more so then your average FPS these days.

Actually, there are alot more than your average FPS

There is certainly some blurring of the lines between genres, but they're still pretty distinct right now and Bioshock is clearly on the FPS side... not stradling the gap. Right now that belongs to ARPG's like Mass Effect and Fallout 3 which have clearly strong shooter elements and strong RPG elements. For a game to be a true hybrid, it needs to be strong on both. Bioshock ain't.

Nope, dont agree for all the reasons I stated before

Describes many, many JRPGs that have come out over the past few years

Well that wasn't all he said, for instance:

I'd say an RPG requires a set of quests to be completed, some mandatory, others not.

There should be a rather in-depth inventory and skill system; the ability to either configure a party or personalize a character.

Most of them have open world exploration of some type

All of those things you'll find in, say, FFX.

Which is why I have issues with what he said. It doesn't have to be all he said, he listed three points and specifically disqualified it on those points alone. I say hes wrong. He says Bioshock doesn't count because it lacks certain qualities. Qualities which are missing from other games. And no FFX did not have an open world to explore, it had a linear enviroment where you choose locations from a list. It was about as linear as you can get. Same with Eternal Sonata and Lost Odyssey. You also didn't create a character either, something which is really only found in western RPGs. You're given a character and you can modify as you see fit. Same as Bioshock.

Now if you want to make a consistent list that details what makes an RPG and RPG then maybe I'll consider your position. As it is however what you're doing is saying Bioshock doesnt count because it lacks X, Y and Z, while other RPGs lack those very same characteristics.

 

[firehawk12]

So yeah, Borderlands... we should party up and do a TrekBBS guild party thing whenever the game comes out.

 

[PKerr]

I found the song if anyone is interested.

It's called "No Heaven" by champion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwPyNOhXFd0

 

[Jim Steele]

Bioshock sucked big time. Fallout 3 and Mass Effect were absolute gems to be adored and worshiped.

Absolutely, unconditionally, 100% agreed.