What would a fourth season have looked like?

[plynch]

I went back to edit but don't seem to have overstrike capabilities.

I was doing some thinking though. Cuz reading the summary for Pretty Maids made me need to go take a shower. Yish.

BUT - Was GR really any different from most men then?

I was just a baby in the swingin' 60s and a child in the Hedonism-R-Us 70s. I clearly remember waitresses being called "honey" and groped as if 'twere nothing. NOT EXCUSING this by the way, people should be treated like people. But I wonder if we attribute more sleaziness to GR than his peers simply because we have his in writing and he is much studied?

 

[Spock's Barber]

But I wonder if we attribute more sleaziness to GR than his peers simply because we have his in writing and he is much studied?

I remember a Bob Justman anecdote about GR......Justman overheard GR say that he only hired Andrea Dromm as Yeoman Smith in WNMHGB because he wanted to score with her.

 

[Harvey]

I was just a baby in the swingin' 60s and a child in the Hedonism-R-Us 70s. I clearly remember waitresses being called "honey" and groped as if 'twere nothing. NOT EXCUSING this by the way, people should be treated like people. But I wonder if we attribute more sleaziness to GR than his peers simply because we have his in writing and he is much studied?

Well, knowing helps, and there were certainly other sleazebags in Hollywood at that time. But I think it would be a mistake to characterize Roddenberry's behavior as the norm.

 

[cooleddie74]

Gene's vision was clearly unique. And fuzzy up to thirty seconds after orgasm.

 

[Therin of Andor]

If a Decker character were to be introduced as a regular, would he have been more like Picard to Kirk's Riker?

GR once told Frakes and Wheaton that the characters of Wesley, Riker and Kirk all represented himself on a continuum of learning.

So I would guess that Will Decker (of the New Human movement) was a Riker to the more-mature Kirk of the movie era, evolved from Kirk (and Matt Decker) of TOS.

 

[johnnybear]

Well Riker was a word that had Kirk in it and Frakes looked a little like Shatner! Before the beard anyway!
JB

 

[Therin of Andor]

Well Riker was a word that had Kirk in it and Frakes looked a little like Shatner! Before the beard anyway!
JB

Will Decker and Riker shared a cleft chin.

 

[johnnybear]

As long as that's all they shared?
JB

 

[plynch]

Well, knowing helps, and there were certainly other sleazebags in Hollywood at that time. But I think it would be a mistake to characterize Roddenberry's behavior as the norm.

I would hope. I think it was closer to the norm than we both hope. I mean look at the reports of horrific behavior lately by men in power in THIS age when we hold such to be truly wrong. Back when it was ok-ish, I bet it was common. Any adults in the 50s/60s weigh in?

 

[Kor]

So, in a Phase II series where Decker is now Captain, and Kirk has gone of to do occasional guest star type stuff, my question is this: who would have been Decker's First Officer? One of the regulars gets promoted - which one? New character?

If Decker was the captain, then maybe Kirk could have been one of those incompetent, power-mad flag officers of the week who seizes command of the ship and ends up turning everything into a mess and has to be humiliatingly put in his place by Decker.

Kor

 

[Mysterion]

^^^^
Don't think so.

 

[Kor]

^^^^
Don't think so.

It kind of happened in TMP, anyway.

Kor

 

[cooleddie74]

Decker was right about Kirk not knowing the redesigned systems of the refitted Enterprise so in that respect Will was the most competent officer on the ship during the V'Ger crisis. But he didn't have Kirk's leadership prowess under pressure and when push came to shove and the Enterprise was all that stood between Earth and V'Ger his years of experience in deep space dealing with frightening and unsettling emergencies emanating from aliens of all different stripes and levels of power was what made the difference between a young captain who knew the state-of-the-art Starfleet systems of the early 2270s and one who could take a ship that no longer looked the way it once did and use it to save the human race from extinction.

 

[Commishsleer]

I went back to edit but don't seem to have overstrike capabilities.

I was doing some thinking though. Cuz reading the summary for Pretty Maids made me need to go take a shower. Yish.

BUT - Was GR really any different from most men then?

I was just a baby in the swingin' 60s and a child in the Hedonism-R-Us 70s. I clearly remember waitresses being called "honey" and groped as if 'twere nothing. NOT EXCUSING this by the way, people should be treated like people. But I wonder if we attribute more sleaziness to GR than his peers simply because we have his in writing and he is much studied?

I guess unfortunately that GR wasn't all that much different from a lot of men in Hollywood at the time.

But I suppose he gets a lot of flak because he's supposed to be a sort of a hero to us Star Trek fans.
And part of a golden couple with Majel. But in reality he cheated on his wife, and even on Majel and allegedly harrassed actresses. And he held himself up as some sort of women's rights supporter with the casting of Number One. Yet allegedly he used his position to get actresses to sleep with him.

But it wasn't just Hollywood. My mother-in-law talks to me about working in the 60s in in a department store. She says the women knew what they were getting into when they "worked back" or went into the back stairs. they were the ones who got promotions or got to be secretaries. My mother-in-law was a "good girl" so she has no sympathy for the women who had to sleep their way to the "secretary" to the top.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Back when it was ok-ish, I bet it was common.

The "casting couch".

 

[Ronald Held]

Would season 4 have lead to Phase II if there were S5,etc?

 

[mb22]

Would season 4 have lead to Phase II if there were S5,etc?

I doubt it. Trek didn't really start becoming a cult item until it hit syndication. Not sure what would happen in this alternate timeline.

 

[mb22]

I remember a Bob Justman anecdote about GR......Justman overheard GR say that he only hired Andrea Dromm as Yeoman Smith in WNMHGB because he wanted to score with her.

And Dromm later denied that anything untoward ever happened ("I had no problems with Gene at all. I thought he was a very nice man").

 

[Pauln6]

And Dromm later denied that anything untoward ever happened ("I had no problems with Gene at all. I thought he was a very nice man").

Grace Lee Whitney in her autobiography confirmed that she had overheard that Roddenberry employed Dromm because he wanted to score with her but she wryly assumed he struck out because she never made it past the pilot.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Would season 4 have lead to Phase II if there were S5,etc?

I dunno. It seemed to me that the need for a "Phase II" evolved from the conventions in LA, where "the gang of four" (Doohan, Takei, Nichols, Koenig) and the Roddenberrys, DC Fontana and David Gerrold would participate in panels with fans and speculate on reviving Trek. The absence of new TOS (and popularity of prime time syndicated reruns) undoubtedly begat TAS, but TAS was not satisfying for all fans. So "Phase II" (alternately a movie, a TV movie, a TV series, and a feature film) attempted to fill a gap. Xon was a hopeful replacement for Nimoy/Spock. Xon, Decker & Ilia were the young, relatable co-stars that studios expected of TV series of the day.

There was also the day that Roddenberry ran into Walter Koenig and told him a feature film was definitely coming, and suggested he might like to play... Chekov's father.

There was definitely a thought that TMP might still have led to a "Phase II" TV series or mini-series or series of telemovies, until Paramount decided to go with ST II under Bennett and Meyer. (There was also a thought that Saavik & David might have led a series of telemovies, until Paramount decided to go with ST III under Nimoy.)