What was your impression of Season 2 overall?

[Kpnuts]

You intentionally skipped over the fact that Burnham and Saru served on the Shenzhou together for seven years before Discovery.

Sure the characters consider themselves family, but it means nothing to us because we'd only seen them together for what, 16 episodes?

I also don't think you have a grasp of these characters. Saru left his biological family and his entire homeworld behind him. He no longer had that family. The Shenzhou and then the Discovery took its place.

Burnham lost her parents, then she was raised in a society that never fully accepted her. So, when Captain Georgiou took her under her wing, of course Burnham would think of the Shenzhou as family. She didn't think of Discovery as family initially but they all came together as one when Saru rallied them together and said Discovery is no longer Lorca's.

I do understand the circumstances. It just doesn't mean much to me. We're being told "YOU SHOULD FEEL EMOTIONAL ABOUT THESE CHARACTERS", it's forced.

I'd recommend watching the video I posted above, it's only a few minutes and gets the point across really well.

 

[Kpnuts]

Yes, because they have history. That's the point. I have a great deal of respect for EC Henry, but I do not agree on this point. I do not think Discovery wants us to "consider them family." I think that they are supposed to be real people who have real connections and real emotions. I don't need 7 seasons (or even 1 season) to get an emotional connection to people and characters.

But we are supposed to feel something when Burham runs up to Tyler in tears or everyone is crying at Airiam. Sure we're not supposed to consider them "family" as such, but we are supposed to feel for them, and I just don't think we do. At least I didn't. They haven't earned any of it because the show hasn't done a good enough job of making us feel for them, these things take time.

 

[Kpnuts]

Of COURSE they fast forwarded Airiam into one episode, the same way the Lower Decks episode of TNG made us care about those characters

Lower Decks introduced three brand new characters. It was expertly done.

Airiam was an already established character who got zero development until the episode where she was killed. Having four totally pointless mirror universe episodes half a dozen episodes into the series was far more important to the writers it seems than developing characters.

 

[F. King Daniel]

No work can survive a hostile reviewer... or whatever the phrase is. I loved the Mirror Universe stuff. And the only difference between "Lower Decks" and Airiam is, she was seen in the background prior to her starring episode. She was never a main character, and the bridge crew isn't an ensemble - hence Reese being called out as "generic communications officer man" in the Harry Mudd episode.

 

[Vger23]

But we are supposed to feel something when Burham runs up to Tyler in tears or everyone is crying at Airiam. Sure we're not supposed to consider them "family" as such, but we are supposed to feel for them, and I just don't think we do. At least I didn't. They haven't earned any of it because the show hasn't done a good enough job of making us feel for them, these things take time.

It's unfortunate it didn't work for you. It seems to have worked just fine for me and many of the others that are arguing with you. I would say it might be time to evaluate whether your personal feelings on this are simply a matter of taste, and not a matter of whether the show was "properly crafted" or not.

 

[BillJ]

No work can survive a hostile reviewer... or whatever the phrase is.

I'm also sure the reverse is true. That no criticism will make a dent to someone in love with a work.

I've tried to be fair to Discovery, to the point that I put TOS and The Orville (for the final five weeks) to the side while the show was running so as not to make unfair comparisons to shows that I love that were fresh in my brain. Even then, it continued to feel exceptionally drab and self-involved. An excellent cast that has been mostly wasted on poor writing.

From a business perspective, I would've probably made many of the same choices. From a creative perspective, the show feels like uninspired fan-fiction. Simply there to turn a dollar off of the Star Trek IP. With no creative vision of its own. Maybe that changes with the move the show is making? I certainly hope so.

Of course, it is a "mileage may vary" type of situation. And my opinions are my own.

 

[Lord Garth]

If you don't identify with the characters, one season or seven doesn't make a difference.

Plus people don't even realize just how much TNG/DS9/VOY has been fused into their skulls. They see a Star Trek series and automatically think, "It'll run seven seasons and this is how it should progress!" No. DSC will never match the episode counts of those shows. It progresses at a different pace by design. The show is renewed each season and each season has to be written as if it could stop there, if that happened, while leaving enough room to continue. There's no "six-year contract with an optional seventh! 26 episodes per year!" That's not the way it works with DSC.

Also: some series start where everyone already knows each other, some series start where they're meeting each other for the first time. Some are both but will tilt more one way than the other. In TNG, DS9, and VOY the characters are meeting most of each other for the first time. In DSC, most of them already know each other.

Riker/Troi, Odo/Quark, Sisko/Dax, Chakotay/Torres, and Janeway/Tuvok were already established friendships, relationships, or rivalries before their respective series started. I didn't hear complaints about those. Complaining about how Burnham and Saru act like they know each other is just digging to find something to criticize the show for.

Saru has no family, Burnham lost hers, so of course they grow closer to and consider each other family. And this will become even more the case in the 33rd Century where they won't know anyone at all and have left everyone they ever knew behind.

And one last thing: anyone else here ever join a circle of friends who already know each other? You're the Johnny Come Lately, not them. It happened to me when I transferred colleges. I went from a community college to a university. Everyone in the group I joined already knew each other. They didn't stop acting like they knew each other just because I showed up. And I caught on to who was who and where I stood with them soon enough. Within months, I felt closer to them than I did anyone in high school. Almost 20 years later, we're still friends. That's what I mean by you either have with it people or you don't. No matter how long or short you've known them.

To me the defining moment for Discovery as a family was when Saru said Discovery is no longer Lorca's. That was the Turning Point. It was taken even further next season when the crew agreed to go with Burnham to the future. Mentally, I as a viewer am going with them too...

... then there are those other people who'd rather stick with the Enterprise instead of following Discovery any further. I might as well repeat what I said at the beginning of the post: I don't think even watching the Discovery crew for seven years would make them like those characters any better.

 

[fireproof78]

But we are supposed to feel something when Burham runs up to Tyler in tears or everyone is crying at Airiam. Sure we're not supposed to consider them "family" as such, but we are supposed to feel for them, and I just don't think we do. At least I didn't. They haven't earned any of it because the show hasn't done a good enough job of making us feel for them, these things take time.

And I do feel something, but not just because the show demands. I do because they are (to me) people who are struggling with real emotions, so I journey with them.

I am sorry it didn't work for you but please do not presume that it didn't work for all.

 

[Yanks]

I overall loved it more than Season 1, and it seemed like the show's finally getting its own voice. Burnham's character development was built up really well, she emoted more than last year, and SMG's acting came off believably as someone who is opening up but still doesn't have a good grip on her feelings, something I've found very easy to relate to. It was a very good decision to have Spock facilitate her character development, as their scenes together were emotional high points of the season, even though the focus on their relationship ended up to the detriment of others in the main cast, mainly Saru, Stamets and Tilly. Looking at the whole season as a whole, it almost seems like as though Saru's and Tilly's arcs were squeezed entirely into the first half of the season so that we could have more time for Michael's experiences with Spock and her mother in the second half. So on the one hand we had some very strong Tilly- and Saru-centric episodes that were truly a highlight of both story and performance, but on the other hand, as soon as their arcs ended, they were rapidly compressed into their most defining characteristics to make room for Burnham. It was the most jarring with Tilly, whose role before the finale was mostly confined to one or two gaffes per episode and one complete non-appearance. Such Sweet Sorrow mostly made up for it though. This is also true for the finale in general, as it made up for a second half that was considerably rushed and chaotic, sometimes reminiscent of the latter half of Season 1. My only gripe with it is what many others found problematic, the whole decision to classify everything which was so drastic and excessive in-universe that it was very hard to interpret it as anything else than an attempt to placate the show's detractors. Another thing the season sadly repeated from last year was the continued instances of the foreshadowing and the build-up being more exciting and interesting than their conclusions which were more often than not quite underwhelming. It can be said of the Red Angel as a whole, but also Control being a keystone army linked to Robo!Leland and everything dying with him, or the blight on the Mycelial Network being Culber himself. There were many neat and interesting concepts and beautiful emotional scenes there that ultimately didn't fully pay off for me because I expected something more grandiose based on the build-up they got. But all things said, this was the best second season we've ever got on Star Trek, even though I admit it's not that high a bar to clear. Pike and Spock were great additions to the cast as well as the updated Enterprise which felt like coming home. I liked the Klingon stories and designs as well (even though I'm still mad at them changing the aesthetics of Boreth from the TNG matte painting's Tibet-esque to generic fairy-tale Gothic Renewal just so that they could shoot it at the University of Toronto). Funnily enough, I'll ultimately have to repeat what I've said at the end of the first season: the next one will make it or break it, even if the reasons are a bit different, given that we're getting a tabula rasa for next year. But based on this season, I'm enthusiastic, because weaknesses in the story arcs aside, we have a great cast with great characters, top notch design and production, and the episodes themselves were consistently exciting and enjoyable.

I'm almost in lock-step with you.

I don't know that I rank this season quite as high as you, but overall I thought it was outstanding!!

Kind of hard to compare a 14 episode season against a 24 episode season that is not exclusively episodic.

I'll also agree WRT SMG's acting. Soooooo much better (real) this season. She's really grown into the part. Now they just need to ween her of her "Mary Sue" title a bit.

Pike, Spock, #1.... they couldn't have done it better and just when I was ready for them to fail WRT the Enterprise, they hit it out of the park. They were so good I'd rather they dropped the Section 31 series and give us a couple years with these 3.

I'm really looking forward to season 3!!

 

[starsuperion]

I just felt bad for Pike. Never has a Captain had his orders constantly questioned and countermanded by so many crew members. Throughout the season 2 episodes, I kept wondering, why even have a captain..its clear everyone has their own ideas of how to get things done, none more sure and adamant then Burnham..sorry Pike, you could've been great, instead they made you weak and unimportant.

 

[Vger23]

I just felt bad for Pike. Never has a Captain had his orders constantly questioned and countermanded by so many crew members. Throughout the season 2 episodes, I kept wondering, why even have a captain..its clear everyone has their own ideas of how to get things done, none more sure and adamant then Burnham..sorry Pike, you could've been great, instead they made you weak and unimportant.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[fireproof78]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

That's because it doesn't make sense. There is no logic to be had there.

 

[starsuperion]

Umm.. Okay, were we watching the same show?? I think there's a Youtube video that shows every instance that Pike was countermanded..Blind devotion is such a funny thing isn't it.

BTW.. No hate speech here, or internalized misogyny.. Just saying AP.. I know how you like to double check my posts.

 

[Vger23]

Umm.. Okay, were we watching the same show?? I think there's a Youtube video that shows every instance that Pike was countermanded..Blind devotion is such a funny thing isn't it.

BTW.. No hate speech here, or internalized misogyny.. Just saying AP.. I know how you like to double check my posts.

 

[Rhodan]

Honestly, my impression was that it had quite an intriguing setup,but obviously lame payoff. Writers came up with interesting concepts while introducing the mystery and initial storyline...Only to closing it with season 1 - style bad writing, unimpressive plot devices and and convoluted way how to make the show in line with canon and characters out of 23rd Century.

This pains me, becouse I like a lot about the series, but I have yet to see the season of Discovery that feels as if made by professional TV writers.

 

[zar]

Umm.. Okay, were we watching the same show?? I think there's a Youtube video that shows every instance that Pike was countermanded..Blind devotion is such a funny thing isn't it.

BTW.. No hate speech here, or internalized misogyny.. Just saying AP.. I know how you like to double check my posts.

Maybe not. Most of us were watching the show, not a cherry-picked youtube compilation of it.

 

[Amasov]

Giving the show a pass because TNG sucked for X number of episodes 25 years ago is nuts in the modern media landscape. Netflix doesn't even want to renew shows beyond three seasons, and Discovery has already done two.

Personally, I think the show has had sufficient opportunity for us to judge it on its own merits.

Agreed - I like this point.

I'm a gamer and a huge fan of the Legend of Zelda series. When the last game in the series, Breath of the Wild, was released, everyone I spoke with was asking if it's better than Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time. I simply asked, "Why does it have to be better or worse? Why can't it just be judged on its own?"

And I hate that Star Trek falls victim to this as well -- but at the same time, when you're dealing with a media franchise that's been around for decades, everyone seems to want to compare it to what came before it.

And that isn't fair.

I'm still watching the show, so, that should tell a person something about how I feel towards it. But in case it doesn't, I do enjoy it a lot; I like the stories and the characters. I just wish there was a little more emphasis on encountering the unknown as opposed to it wanting to add more meat to things we were familiar with. I was disappointed the red angel turned out to be both Michael's mother and Michael, herself. I was hoping it was going to be some strange, alien entity we had never encountered before.

 

[Amasov]

Honestly, my impression was that it had quite an intriguing setup,but obviously lame payoff. Writers came up with interesting concepts while introducing the mystery and initial storyline...Only to closing it with season 1 - style bad writing, unimpressive plot devices and and convoluted way how to make the show in line with canon and characters out of 23rd Century.

This pains me, becouse I like a lot about the series, but I have yet to see the season of Discovery that feels as if made by professional TV writers.

It's so interesting because producer Ted Sullivan, while being interviewed by TrekMovie at the series premiere, said this when asked about how difficult it would be for Discovery to maintain canon with Enterprise: "Enterprise did a lot of scrambling and patching things up - which worked very well for their show."

I find it odd because that seems to be what Discovery is doing now: it's running around try to assure everyone that the show is going to align with canon (which is already did, imo); and in the end, they took the easy way out; they just classified it and swept it under the rug.

At one point, I thought, how cool would it have been that the way to align with canon would be, first; all of this technology that Starfleet experimented with and used (the spore drive, Control, and even the holograms) caused major problems and led to near-disaster. Pike spoke with Number One about the holograms and how they were wreaking havoc on the Enterprises systems, his solution was just to rip it out entirely. Because of all of this, I would totally buy into the fact that Starfleet felt they needed to dial it back a bit until these new technologies aren't massive safety risks any longer.

 

[Vger23]

I just wish there was a little more emphasis on encountering the unknown as opposed to it wanting to add more meat to things we were familiar with. I was disappointed the red angel turned out to be both Michael's mother and Michael, herself. I was hoping it was going to be some strange, alien entity we had never encountered before.

This was my biggest area of disappointment, to be honest. The season was set up to be something potentially really special. And, despite the fact that I enjoyed it immensely, I think they missed an opportunity.

Even if the Red Angel remained an "unknown" at the end of the season, and it was left up to debate what it was and where it came from, I think that would have been preferable if, along the way, we learned more about our characters as a result. If done well, that could have been a powerful and meaningful conclusion.

Instead, they went in a direction I would not have wanted to see it go (Evil AI, Human = RA) that just ended up disappointing me, perhaps because I had built expectations in such a different direction.

 

[Amasov]

Even if the Red Angel remained an "unknown" at the end of the season, and it was left up to debate what it was and where it came from, I think that would have been preferable if, along the way, we learned more about our characters as a result. If done well, that could have been a powerful and meaningful conclusion.

And this is why I love the ending to Star Trek: The Motion Picture. While the movie ends with more questions than answers, Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the Enterprise crew learned a little something about themselves as a result and you feel it was an experience that altered their perceptions of the galaxy. Hell, I would think that anything we'd encounter in space would have the power to do that no matter how advanced we get.