What was your impression of Season 2 overall?

[fireproof78]

You honestly felt something when they made a big deal of killing a character they'd never developed before that episode? Or when Burnham said goodbye to Tyler? Or when Pike reunited with Spock? Or any scene involving Stamets and Culber?

Absolutely yes. For me, characters are not just my interactions with myself but also how they interact with each other.

The show is cheating by fast-forwarding through relationships, and nothing is earned or feels legit because of it.

Yeah, I'm not even going to try with this one. Star Trek has done this since "Where No Man Has Gone Before." This is neither new nor offensive.

And if you're enjoying the statement-like way the characters talk, completely unnaturaly and scripted, more power to you. I find it makes the characters hard to like, especially zero personality Burnham.

Have recently rewatched "Farpoint" "Caretaker" and "Parallax" I find DSC's way of speaking far easier to follow, far more natural, and less irritating.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You honestly felt something when they made a big deal of killing a character they'd never developed before that episode? Or when Burnham said goodbye to Tyler? Or when Pike reunited with Spock? Or any scene involving Stamets and Culber?
The show is cheating by fast-forwarding through relationships, and nothing is earned or feels legit because of it.

Yes I did. I frequently had tears in my eyes during those scenes. After a season of getting to know these characters, the moments were earned.

And if you're enjoying the statement-like way the characters talk, completely unnaturaly and scripted, more power to you. I find it makes the characters hard to like, especially zero personality Burnham.

I guess we just know very different kinds of people

 

[Noname Given]

In season 1 or 2? No. Can't even get through Encounter at Farpoint or Caretaker without cringing.

I can at least connect with the characters in DSC far more than I ever could in TNG.

Agreed - Considering ST: D has only 30 episodes, compared to ST: TNG or ST: DS9 ST: D is barely past a Season 1 comparison. And in that regard it blows away both ST: TNG (by a HUGE degree as ST: TNG S1 is virtually unwatchable for me), or ST: DS9 .

 

[Vger23]

Agreed - Considering ST: D has only 30 episodes, compared to ST: TNG or ST: DS9 ST: D is barely past a Season 1 comparison. And in that regard it blows away both ST: TNG (by a HUGE degree as ST: TNG S1 is virtually unwatchable for me), or ST: DS9 .

This is fundamentally dead-on correct, and I've said it many times myself.

The first 29 episodes of DSC are far from perfect, but they are much better than any other first season of Trek, barring the obvious example of TOS.

 

[EnderAKH]

You honestly felt something when they made a big deal of killing a character they'd never developed before that episode?

Yes.

Or when Burnham said goodbye to Tyler?

Yes.

Or when Pike reunited with Spock?

This one, not as much.

Or any scene involving Stamets and Culber?

Yes.

I felt more when Airiam died than when they killed off Yar. But that's just me.

 

[Jadeb]

Giving the show a pass because TNG sucked for X number of episodes 25 years ago is nuts in the modern media landscape. Netflix doesn't even want to renew shows beyond three seasons, and Discovery has already done two.

Personally, I think the show has had sufficient opportunity for us to judge it on its own merits.

 

[fireproof78]

Giving the show a pass because TNG sucked for X number of episodes 25 years ago is nuts in the modern media landscape. Netflix doesn't even want to renew shows beyond three seasons, and Discovery has already done two.

Personally, I think the show has had sufficient opportunity for us to judge it on its own merits.

I'm not giving it a pass because TNG sucked early on. I have watched DSC and judged it fine on its own merits and more watchable than early TNG, if I make the comparison at all.

But, I have reached the point where I will not compare it to any other Star Trek property and demand it be like that when those shows had a minimum of 3 seasons or more to work out there kinks. It is an unfair comparison at any level, to my mind, and does injustice to both DSC and the other Star Trek properties that are insisted upon to be the gold standard when they all had their own flaws.

I felt more when Airiam died than when they killed off Yar. But that's just me.

Glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Noname Given]

Giving the show a pass because TNG sucked for X number of episodes 25 years ago is nuts in the modern media landscape. Netflix doesn't even want to renew shows beyond three seasons, and Discovery has already done two.

Personally, I think the show has had sufficient opportunity for us to judge it on its own merits.

I have - and I like it better than ST: TNG, ST: DS9, ST: VOY <--- NOW there's a garbage Trek series, and ST: ENT.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm really tired of the "give it a pass" accusation. I've been a fan for almost 30 years. I never gave the first seasons of DS9, VOY, or ENT a pass. I said what I thought of them.

Same with the first two seasons of DSC. Do you really, honestly think I'd bat for the show this hard if I didn't like it? Guess what: I wouldn't. Life's too short for this "give it two seasons" bullshit. If I say I like it, then I really like it. Strange, I know.

If anything, I wonder whether or not the third season might not be as good as the first two seasons because of the switch in timeframes. I hope the 33rd Century is interesting enough to justify the transition, but if not then the change was for naught. It'll pacify purists who don't want DSC in the TOS Era, but that doesn't mean it'll automatically make the show better.

Plus, think about this: I don't want DSC doing anything the way TNG did, or to follow its example in any shape or form. So why would it be different here? Why would I say, "It's okay if DSC's first two seasons sucked because TNG's first two seasons sucked"? It makes no sense.

 

[fireproof78]

Same with the first two seasons of DSC. Do you really, honestly think I'd bat for the show this hard if I didn't like it? Guess what: I wouldn't. Life's too short for this "give it two seasons" bullshit. If I say I like it, then I really like it. Strange, I know.

Exactly. I'm way past the point of sticking with things because "Star Trek." That, to me, is more ridiculous than what I'm often accused of doing for liking DSC. I have zero interest in watching something that doesn't entertain me.

Also, I don't DSC or Picard to be anything like TNG. I don't want more of TOS, TNG, DS9 or VOY. I'm even content with no more Kelvin Trek, though I would be far more open to that coming back. I want them to be their own styles of stories set in a familiar enough universe to enjoy. It doesn't need to be perfectly looking like Star Trek for me to engage with it as Star Trek.

Finally, insisting that character dynamics be just like TNG (or whatever gold standard) is absurd on its face. More often than not, when I see these comparisons, it's because TNG is being lumped together as a whole rather than recognizing that they had their growing pains too and the dynamics took time to actually develop, and were not these perfectly formed units shipped straight from the Star Trek factory.

 

[Lord Garth]

To think. One day a large number of fans will lambast some future Star Trek series for not being like Disco or anything else from the Kurtzman Era.

"It won't happen!" Yes it will.

 

[Kpnuts]

Yeah, I'm not even going to try with this one. Star Trek has done this since "Where No Man Has Gone Before." This is neither new nor offensive.

Yes I did. I frequently had tears in my eyes during those scenes. After a season of getting to know these characters, the moments were earned.

I felt more when Airiam died than when they killed off Yar. But that's just me.

Please give this a watch. It's only a few minutes. The guy has great Star Trek content.

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How anyone can argue the show isn't fast forwarding character arcs and emotions is beyond me. At the end of season 7 of TNG the crew felt like a family. Discovery wants us to consider them a family after 25 episodes.

 

[F. King Daniel]

How anyone can argue the show isn't fast forwarding character arcs and emotions is beyond me. At the end of season 7 of TNG the crew felt like a family. Discovery wants us to consider them a family after 25 episodes.

I take it then you've never watched a 90-minute or 2-hour movie and felt any connection to those characters?

 

[Kpnuts]

I take it then you've never watched a 90-minute or 2-hour movie and felt any connection to those characters?

I absolutely have, but this isn't about having a connection to characters. I don't consider two people who work together in a 2 hour film a "family" like Burnham called Saru in an early season 2 episode.

Also films I like to watch tend to have better actors/more compelling characters than Martin Green/Burnham.

They can get characterisation right. The scene in the meeting room where Saru walks in with a "cold" or the scene in the mess hall with Detmer, Owo, Airiam, Reno, probably a few other women, Linus and Stamets. Those were great, there just needs to be more of them.

The point is this isn't a two hour film. They have SEASONS to get character development right, and they're choosing to fast forward and force these emotions that are in no way earned. Just like they thought going to the mirror universe 7 or 8 episodes into a brand new show was a good idea, when we were still getting to know our characters, let alone their mirror counterparts.

Comparing Discovery to season 1 TNG, which aired thirty years ago is just ridiculous. What's also ridiculous is that season 7 TNG, only a few years later, where it showed that "family" status had been earned, is wiping the floor with Discovery. One's taking shortcuts, the other did it properly.

 

[SJGardner]

I take it then you've never watched a 90-minute or 2-hour movie and felt any connection to those characters?

"Who is this Tekeny Ghemor and why am I supposed to care he's dying? He's been in, like, one episode three seasons ago and that's it."

 

[Lord Garth]

I absolutely have, but this isn't about having a connection to characters. I don't consider two people who work together in a 2 hour film a "family" like Burnham called Saru in an early season 2 episode.

You intentionally skipped over the fact that Burnham and Saru served on the Shenzhou together for seven years before Discovery.

 

[Lord Garth]

The point is this isn't a two hour film. They have SEASONS to get character development right, and they're choosing to fast forward and force these emotions that are in no way earned. Just like they thought going to the mirror universe 7 or 8 episodes into a brand new show was a good idea, when we were still getting to know our characters, let alone their mirror counterparts.

No. The point is you don't connect with these characters and thus don't see how they can connect to each other.

Several of them already served together on the Shenzhou and you're confusing quality of time with quantity of time. I can hit it off with one person instantly but with another person I've known for decades, it's just "Hi," when passing by.

I also don't think you have a grasp of these characters. Saru left his biological family and his entire homeworld behind him. He no longer had that family. The Shenzhou and then the Discovery took its place.

Burnham lost her parents, then she was raised in a society that never fully accepted her. So, when Captain Georgiou took her under her wing, of course Burnham would think of the Shenzhou as family. She didn't think of Discovery as family initially but they all came together as one when Saru rallied them together and said Discovery is no longer Lorca's.

 

[EnderAKH]

Please give this a watch. It's only a few minutes. The guy has great Star Trek content.

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No. I don't watch YouTube clips to try to talk myself out of enjoying something I already enjoyed. I like to watch things and make my OWN determination on whether I liked it, rather than relying on the opinions of others to shape mine. Honestly, what kind of monster wants people to stop liking something just because they don't? Accept it. I enjoy Discovery.

How anyone can argue the show isn't fast forwarding character arcs and emotions is beyond me. At the end of season 7 of TNG the crew felt like a family. Discovery wants us to consider them a family after 25 episodes.

Of COURSE they fast forwarded Airiam into one episode, the same way the Lower Decks episode of TNG made us care about those characters, and Sita, in one episode so we would care when she died, or Buffy made us care about Jonathan in Earshot, even though until then he was essentially a background character. That's what ALL screenwriting DOES... it uses tricks to make us care about characters in a compressed amount of time so that we care about their stories and fates. As far as the family aspects, I agree with what has already been said in that you are discounting the time they already served together. And if you think the writers of TNG did not expect us to think the Enterprise crew considered each other family in season one when Yar died, I don't know what show you were watching.

 

[fireproof78]

How anyone can argue the show isn't fast forwarding character arcs and emotions is beyond me. At the end of season 7 of TNG the crew felt like a family. Discovery wants us to consider them a family after 25 episodes.

Yes, because they have history. That's the point. I have a great deal of respect for EC Henry, but I do not agree on this point. I do not think Discovery wants us to "consider them family." I think that they are supposed to be real people who have real connections and real emotions. I don't need 7 seasons (or even 1 season) to get an emotional connection to people and characters.

Sorry, I can get emotionally connected to a character in a single episode, and recognize their history with other people. The comparison game with TNG is neither helpful nor accurate here.

No. I don't watch YouTube clips to try to talk myself out of enjoying something I already enjoyed. I like to watch things and make my OWN determination on whether I liked it, rather than relying on the opinions of others to shape mine. Honestly, what kind of monster wants people to stop liking something just because they don't? Accept it. I enjoy Discovery.

In my experience if individuals do not connect with characters then understanding why others might like it is very difficult.

 

[BillJ]

You honestly felt something when they made a big deal of killing a character they'd never developed before that episode? Or when Burnham said goodbye to Tyler? Or when Pike reunited with Spock? Or any scene involving Stamets and Culber?

I found Airiam well done, but unearned (too condensed for me to really have cared about the character, it reminded me of the episode of Voyager where Joe Carey was killed in season seven). Burnham and Tyler had the chemistry of two wet pieces of cardboard slapping together. Pike and Spock were also pretty flat.

I thought they did pretty well with Stamets and Culber on an emotional level. Too bad they didn't bring that kind of care to any of the other characters and relationships.