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What was wrong with "These are the Voyages"

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I liked the episode myself. Thought it was a clever way to wrap it up, and speed up to the Birth of the Federation, since they were being canceled. Had the show been allowed to continue, we may have got a much better version. But they were rushed and that is what we got.
 
I was just looking over Connor's credits on his imdb web page, when I discovered an anomaly in the list of ENT episodes:

Episode 96: Demons.
Episode 97: These Are The Voyages.
Episode 98: Terra Prime.

ETA: I left something out:
Episode 97: These Are The Voyages. Commander Charles 'Trip' Tucker III (hologram)
(hologram) is also listed after the names of the entire regular cast and Jeffrey Combs.

Somebody was making a point...
 
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ETA: I left something out:
Episode 97: These Are The Voyages. Commander Charles 'Trip' Tucker III (hologram)
(hologram) is also listed after the names of the entire regular cast and Jeffrey Combs.

Somebody was making a point...

:lol: That's awesome!
 
I agree with most the things that have been said (Well up to page 5, I didn't read beyond that). I was just wondering if anyone else thought the corridor shots of Riker walking to the Holodeck with Troi seemed smaller than in TNG. I have just watched the episode and I am sure the corridor is narrower. Also when Riker was in the shuttle playing as a MACO, his name patch on his jacket said 'W.Riker' surely that should have had the name of the MACO he was pretending to be.

I hated Trip's death there was NO need for it. Also I hated how the very last bit of the episode was of Troi and Riker walking off the holodeck. This was the finale of ENT, it should have ended with Archer walking onto the platform.

I loved the bit at the end with the 3 Enterprise's and the captian's doing the voice overs.
 
Badly written holodeck program, easily ignored, especially the ugly details like Trip getting killed or being described like he learned engineering from Goober.
 
^ You should be kidding - as bad as TATV was, AotC was worse. At least TATV had a coherent story, bad as it was
 
Given that argument, I can understand a bit though IMO the prequels are pretty insulting as well
 
And you didn't have to pay to see it.
Oh, I paid. With precious 60 minutes of my life, I paid. :shifty:

EDIT:

So, after five and a half years, Berman finally faced it!

In retrospect it was a bad idea. When it was conceived it was with our heart completely in the right place. We wanted to pay the greatest homage and honor to the characters of Enterprise that we possibly could, but because Jonathan (Frakes) and Marina (Sirtis) were the two people we brought in, and they were the ones looking back, it was perceived as “You’re ending our series with a TNG episode.” I understand how people felt that way. Too many people felt that way for them to be wrong.
Check out the whole interview here.

BTW, just to remind you, this is what Berman said back in 2005:
You never like to disappoint people, but I think its nonsense to say that it was more a Next Generation episode than a Enterprise episode
 
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And you didn't have to pay to see it.
Oh, I paid. With precious 60 minutes of my life, I paid. :shifty:

EDIT:

So, after five and a half years, Berman finally faced it!

In retrospect it was a bad idea. When it was conceived it was with our heart completely in the right place. We wanted to pay the greatest homage and honor to the characters of Enterprise that we possibly could, but because Jonathan (Frakes) and Marina (Sirtis) were the two people we brought in, and they were the ones looking back, it was perceived as “You’re ending our series with a TNG episode.” I understand how people felt that way. Too many people felt that way for them to be wrong.

Check out the whole interview here.
I only read the part about This Ain't The Valentine. At least he's seen the light.
 
Here's the main portion of the interview where Berman talks about TATV:

I would have never done it if I had known how people were going to react. We were informed with not a whole lot of time that this was our last season. We knew that this was going to be the last episode of Star Trek for perhaps quite some time – and here we are, almost six years later. So it was the last episode for quite a length of time. It was a very difficult choice, how to end it. The studio wanted it to be a one-hour episode. We wanted it to be special. We wanted it to be something that would be memorable. This idea, which Brannon and I came up with – and I take full responsibility – pissed a lot of people off, and we certainly didn’t mean it to. Our thought was to take this crew and see them through the eyes of a future generation, see them through the eyes of the people who we first got involved in Star Trek with 18 years before, with Picard and Riker and Data, etc., and to see the history of how Archer and his crew went from where we had them to where, eventually, the Federation was formed, in some kind of a magical holographic history lesson.

It seemed like a great idea. A lot of people were furious about it. The actors, most of them, were very unhappy. In retrospect it was a bad idea. When it was conceived it was with our heart completely in the right place. We wanted to pay the greatest homage and honor to the characters of Enterprise that we possibly could, but because Jonathan (Frakes) and Marina (Sirtis) were the two people we brought in, and they were the ones looking back, it was perceived as “You’re ending our series with a TNG episode.” I understand how people felt that way. Too many people felt that way for them to be wrong. Brannon and I felt terrible that we’d let a lot of people down. It backfired, but our hearts were definitely in the right place. It just was not accepted in the way we thought it would be.

I totally, totally think Berman's telling the truth here. And the fact of the matter is, he was right about TATV's concept. It would have made an interesting episode about someone from the future using a holodeck to recreate past events from ENTERPRISE. However, it should never have been used as the finale to the series, the people doing the observing should not have been Riker and Troi (unless it was post-Nemesis, present-Titan/Enterprise-E), and the setting should not have been shoehorned into "The Pegasus" where it tried to retcon the original episode and ended up making no sense in the original context.
 
Yeah, I've always believed the core concept of TATV was a fine one. And season four seemed the best time to do it, all things considered. But as a finale? No. Riker and Troi? No. Shoehorned into "Pegasus"? No. Basically everything you said, yeah.

Plus that bit someone pointed out about how Archer stepping toward the podium should have been the final scene. Seriously, that episode is just screwed in almost every way.
 
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