What was wrong with "These are the Voyages"

[Gaith]

^ Sure they "had him" for more than five minutes, in an emotional sense; he must have been in their thoughts for the better part of a year, and your mother carried him to term and delivered him - which is, I'd wager, a tad different than being handed a sickly baby out of the blue and being told it's genetically but certainly not legally yours, at least by contemporary standards.

Either way, that plot point's a poor excuse to set TATV six years later, but since (as I said upthread) I consider TATV to be a meta-parody of Enterprise's flaws to begin with, I guess I can't say it's that out of place.

 

[Mach5]

I also always thought that Trip and T'Pol cared about that baby just a tad too much, considering that it literally came out of nowhere.

T'Pol didn't carry Elisabeth in her womb (which is how mothers bond with their babies), both she and Trip knew her for mere days, and named her shortly before she passed away...

But then again, perhaps T'Pol sensed her "flesh and blood" telepathically (that could be how she KNEW she was indeed their child the moment she first heard about her existence), and since Trip was her bondmate with whom she shared a telephatic connection, her parental instincts could have transferred onto him.

Plus, I'd bet that at some point this baby situation made both Trip and T'Pol imagine staring a family together, raising Elisabeth, seeing her grow up, seeing her tackle all the challenges that come with being a half breed etc...

 

[JiNX-01]

^ Sure they "had him" for more than five minutes, in an emotional sense; he must have been in their thoughts for the better part of a year, and your mother carried him to term and delivered him - which is, I'd wager, a tad different than being handed a sickly baby out of the blue and being told it's genetically but certainly not legally yours, at least by contemporary standards.

Either way, that plot point's a poor excuse to set TATV six years later, but since (as I said upthread) I consider TATV to be a meta-parody of Enterprise's flaws to begin with, I guess I can't say it's that out of place.

Whatever.

 

[Mach5]

Whatever.

How eloquent

 

[Gaith]

Maybe JiNX-01 was expecting a consolatory statement, but unlike at Misc. or TNZ, when it comes to franchise/series subforums, I leave emotions at the door and deal in strict rationality. Nothing personal, and no offense.

 

[JiNX-01]

OK, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[timelord1010]

As I said before if Berman and company would have just did a special crossover episode without the Enterprise name on it and with a better story they could have went out with a bang.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Maybe JiNX-01 was expecting a consolatory statement, but unlike at Misc. or TNZ, when it comes to franchise/series subforums, I leave emotions at the door and deal in strict rationality. Nothing personal, and no offense.

The Trip/T'Pol/Elizabeth...debate for lack of a better word is a rather touchy subject for some who have been around this forum for a while, and not just because more than a few here have lost babies. And I'll leave it at that.

Back on topic, the idea of this turd being written ahead of time is plausible--it's not uncommon for shows to plan SLs years ahead of time, and Enterprise had been on the chopping block the year before, so it makes sense. But hot damn, how hard would it have been to put some treaks in there about recent events and have them all be promoted at least a rank?

Short notice my ass. The show had been dropping ratings like flies since day one, and the only reason it got a fourth season was to make a prettier syndication package. B&B had more than enough time to make this p a bit more palpable than it was.

The saddest part is the montage was apparently a last-minute addition that neither B thought of including. Un-fucking-belivable.

 

[Mach5]

Back on topic, the idea of this turd being written ahead of time is plausible--it's not uncommon for shows to plan SLs years ahead of time, and Enterprise had been on the chopping block the year before, so it makes sense. But hot damn, how hard would it have been to put some treaks in there about recent events and have them all be promoted at least a rank?

Short notice my ass. The show had been dropping ratings like flies since day one, and the only reason it got a fourth season was to make a prettier syndication package. B&B had more than enough time to make this p a bit more palpable than it was.

The saddest part is the montage was apparently a last-minute addition that neither B thought of including. Un-fucking-belivable.

All this just gives the notorious Final fuck you to the fans theory more merit.

Just think about it.

• Berman and Braga create a show.
• Fans aren't satisfied, many give up watching.
• The entire Trekkie subculture now blames B&B for killing Trek...
• Manny Coto comes on board, hailed as a savior.
• Trekkies: "The show is finally good now, now that those fucking Beebs gave it to someone who is actually competent, ha ha!"

It hurts like a bitch, when someone else takes the credit for making something you created not suck.

So this is how (it might have) went:

BERMAN: "Fuck those ungrateful Trekkie pieces of shit, we're the Beebs, we fucking gave them TNG, for crying out loud!!! You wan't TNG? We'll fucking give you TNG, you ungrateful little turds, and we'll see you gets the last laugh!"

BRAGA: "Are you sure that's such a good id..."

BERMAN: "Shut up, Brannon"

BRAGA: "Okay.. "

 

[JiNX-01]

The Trip/T'Pol/Elizabeth...debate for lack of a better word is a rather touchy subject for some who have been around this forum for a while, and not just because more than a few here have lost babies. And I'll leave it at that.

Back on topic, the idea of this turd being written ahead of time is plausible--it's not uncommon for shows to plan SLs years ahead of time, and Enterprise had been on the chopping block the year before, so it makes sense. But hot damn, how hard would it have been to put some treaks in there about recent events and have them all be promoted at least a rank?

Short notice my ass. The show had been dropping ratings like flies since day one, and the only reason it got a fourth season was to make a prettier syndication package. B&B had more than enough time to make this p a bit more palpable than it was.

The saddest part is the montage was apparently a last-minute addition that neither B thought of including. Un-fucking-belivable.

I was under the impression that This Ain't The Valentine was destined to be a season finale. When Bermaga were told of the cancellation, they insisted on doing The Finale (series/franchise/whatever ). And they decided that their OhSoVeryCleverCrossover episode would be perfect!
And they were right. It was a perfect metaphor for their bungling.

Back on topic, the idea of this turd being written ahead of time is plausible--it's not uncommon for shows to plan SLs years ahead of time, and Enterprise had been on the chopping block the year before, so it makes sense. But hot damn, how hard would it have been to put some treaks in there about recent events and have them all be promoted at least a rank?

Yeah, there are probably lots of producers looking ahead when developing story lines. However, based of the uneven quality of the first two seasons, I don't think Bermaga were members of that club.

Short notice my ass. The show had been dropping ratings like flies since day one, and the only reason it got a fourth season was to make a prettier syndication package. B&B had more than enough time to make this p a bit more palpable than it was.

It was definitely not a short-notice issue. It was about egos.

 

[Saxman1]

Perhaps because killing off Trip right after Elizabeth dies would be a bit much even for this piece of ?

Eh, that was a lame episode anyway. And they knew the baby for what, two days?

Well, my second brother was stillborn and my parents didn't have him for five minutes and they still mourned.

Thanks for stopping by.

Agreed. My parents still mourned the loss of my brother and sister, one stillborn, the other after 5 days.

 

[Gaith]

No offense, but what's your point? Elizabeth was a completely different case, as I noted above. And if that was the reason they set TATV six years later, why not one year later? Or two?

 

[Mach5]

About a year and a half ago, my childhood friend gave birth prematurely, just before entering the third trimester. The child was placed in an incubator, but she was told that its chances are very slim (it was real tiny). I remember her family being devastated, and even I teared up when I heard the news... Today however, that baby, a beautiful blue-eyed boy, is very much alive and in good health.

My point, it doesn't take long to start caring.

 

[JiNX-01]

No offense, but what's your point? Elizabeth was a completely different case, as I noted above. And if that was the reason they set TATV six years later, why not one year later? Or two?

Well, sometimes people are just irrationally proprietary about children who share their DNA.

Say you knocked up someone and she didn't tell you. Five years later you find out you're a father. Wouldn't you give a damn about your own kid? Or would you deal with the situation with, and I quote, "strict rationality, nothing personal?"

 

[Captain Robert April]

There's a not-so-fine line between being "strictly rational" and being an insensitive jackass.

Just sayin'...

 

[Gaith]

Well, I've applied to be a sperm donor before, but was rejected due to possibility of mad cow infection (thanks, England!). But if they'd accepted and used my sperm, as in your example, I wouldn't consider any such children flat-out "mine", nor would I consider myself a full-fledged father. Call me hopelessly modern, but I don't think parenting and lineage should be strictly defined by DNA.

Now, if such a child were mistreated, and then fell into my possession and died a few days later, I imagine I might indeed feel some dark stuff. Would I feel devastated? I doubt it, but that's not the point. The point is, it was silly of TPTB to set TATV six years later, but since I take TATV as a tongue-in-cheek parody of much that was wrong with ENT anyway, the additional silliness doesn't much bother me.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Well, I've applied to be a sperm donor before, but was rejected due to possibility of mad cow infection (thanks, England!).

I guess I can scratch that off my list of ways to make some money. Again, thanks, England.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Let's drop the Trip/T'Pol/Elizabeth sidebar. There is obviously a difference of opinion here, and continued back-and-forthing is likely only to ruffle more feathers or hurt more feelings, rather than create any sort of consensus.

Back to throwing brickbats at TATV, please.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

To quote sfdebris

To bring the series full circle, Berman and Braga return to make sure the show returns to its roots, specifically, by being a complete piece of shit. The Enterprise characters take back stage to the Riker and Troi show. You know, some of us joked that the only end for Enterprise would have to be the phrase "Computer, end program." To Berman and Braga, I'd just like to say: we were being sarcastic, we had no idea you were listening and going to run with it.

 

[number6]

There's a not-so-fine line between being "strictly rational" and being an insensitive jackass.

Just sayin'...

As evidenced on this BBS daily.