What was wrong with "These are the Voyages"

[Saquist]

Actually, TNG's first two seasons are generally consider some of the worst Star Trek episodes made (followed by the majority of the third season of TOS - and TOS is my favorite Star Trek series - but, I can still recognize it's flaws too.)

No not the worse. Not even Generally.
I have correct this because it was actually the acting of Gates McFadden and Marina Sirtis that was bad, not the stories, not the special effects and not the writing. There was a corny factor but it didn't overwhelm the show in 1-2

Overall, I think TNG is very overrated it terms of it's 'quality' during it's run. It honestly didn't find it's footing until it's 3rd season either (much like ENT - although ENTs first and second season were nowhere near as bad as TNG's.)

It's not overrated. Even in 1-2 it was solid Sci Fi stories. They tackled issues, they were superflous. I still like the Nagelum and the Binar episode even Time Squared. The corny parts...Data and the twin brother, Wesley ...

TNG itself had a LOT of rehashed characters from 'Star Trek: The Motion Picture'; and also one from a failed GR pilot - The Questor Tapes.

Deanna Troi = Lt. Iylia (ST:TMP)
William Riker = Captain/Cmdr. Matt Decker (ST:TMP)
Data = The Questor Tapes android (lock stock & barrel)

I don't see, dude.
Data sure but the others are so subjective I might as well be looking at an abstract painting.

And, TNG's first season had alienated so many TOS fans that Paramount started offering a first run syndication package that included TOS, and a suggestion from Paramount that local stations 'sandwich' the new TNG episodes between two TOS episodes eah week - and the Producers (and GR) tried (badly) to recreate a TOS McCoy/Spock, by introducing the blatant female 'McCoy clone' character (right down to hating using the Transporter and being an 'old country doctor') of Dr. Katherine Pulaski, and had her going after the most 'Spock-like' character , Lt. Cmdr. Data. The fan response was not pretty.
^^^

I can see Pulaski. sure. But it wasn't a blatant rip off it was different take on that relationship. Data was never condescending and very disarming and Pulaski was often apologetic about what she said. Yes, there are similarities...it's from the same mind, it's the same concept. The fans actually wanted a carbon copy but GR was trying to take the series in another direction it took fans time to realise this was almost 100 years later. Fans are stubborn. It can be good and bad.

It always amazes me that in discussions of things in Star Trek franchise be blatent unoriginal rehashes of things that came before, that these aspects of TNG are somehow dismissed or conveniently forgotten.

I have to dismiss them. There is nothing inherently wrong with them. Every Star Trek has had a break out character. Spock, Worf, Odo, Neelix, Phlox is there something wrong with that. Or the ever logical character Spock, Odo, Data Seven of Nine, T'pol. The stories are rehashed, the ships are a rehash....It's how you do it. Is there style...and yes...TNG had style, it took a bit of time developing it but the ratings support it through out it's tenor.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

By golly, I believe you all have actually run out of bad things to say about TATV. Wait, lemme get my camera...

 

[Winterwind]

Oh, I could come us with a few things. But I'm too busy enjoying my morning coffee.

 

[number6]

By golly, I believe you all have actually run out of bad things to say about TATV. Wait, lemme get my camera...

Welcome to five years ago. We're just rehashing old plots here.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I was thinking, it would have been much cooler if it was Janeway looking back at the NX-01's missions. Like Enterprise, Voyager was all alone in frequently hostile space.

I could imagine Janeway watching the Enterprise episode where Archer tortures the space pirate before she nearly kills that Equinox crewman, or maybe watching Archer turn pirate during the Voyager where they're stuck in a void and everyone's raiding everyone else's supplies.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Not much can be done about the futzing up with regards to "The Pegasus" but the bulk of the episode can just be chalked up to a badly written holodeck program with very little historical accuracy.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I was thinking, it would have been much cooler if it was Janeway looking back at the NX-01's missions. Like Enterprise, Voyager was all alone in frequently hostile space.

I could imagine Janeway watching the Enterprise episode where Archer tortures the space pirate before she nearly kills that Equinox crewman, or maybe watching Archer turn pirate during the Voyager where they're stuck in a void and everyone's raiding everyone else's supplies.

This got me trying to imagine Archer being the Voyager's captain. Dude, poor Delta Quadrant. You think Janeway left a trail of destruction? She's got nothing on him.


Just imagine the Voyager's crew watching a what-if scenario playing out...some gobsmacked, others crying.

Since TatV actually happened, I can totally see this happening, too. At least that would have been funny.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Did it "actually happen" though? Or did the author of that holoprogram get a few details off? Like what Shran was doing or how Trip died, or maybe missing the 2156 refit where a secondary hull was added, that sort of thing.

 

[Shatnertage]

I like the thought of Archer tearing through the Delta Quadrant, leaving a trail of well-meaning mistakes in his wake.

And stories about gazelles.


Funny but true: I visited the San Diego zoo last week, and was stopped in front of one of the gazelle enclosures. I'm watching these graceful animals frolic around, and there's something in the back of my mind saying, "hah--gazelles." I can't quite place my finger on it, so I almost convince myself that I've seen a YouTube video of a gazelle doing something naughty.

Then the Gazelle Speech bubbles up from my subconscious, in all its glory. I pull my wife aside and start, "When I was in my twenties I took a trip to West Africa..."

She laughed.

So this is why Archer=Gazelles for me right now.

 

[Saxman1]

I agree with some of the posters above: I've always (from first run) looked at this ep as a badly-written holodeck program because of all the continuity gaffes.

However, Riker and Troi should have been on the Titan, neither looking anything remotely like their TNG-era selves. Frakes looks like a fat boozer and Sirits: sue that plastic surgeon! You look like you're in pain: your face has been stretched to an almost Oriental-like tightness! Yuck! I say this as a huge TNG fan...but they look TERRIBLE!

Any time I see Frakes on anything in the last 10 years, he looks 50 pounds heavier than the last time! Go on a diet, man or cut out the beer! Wow!

 

[Mach5]

Go on a diet, man or cut out the beer! Wow!

And get hair plugs for your bald spot!

 

[Saxman1]

Go on a diet, man or cut out the beer! Wow!

And get hair plugs for your bald spot!

Agreed, or wear a rug! Check out his most recent convention pics on Wikipedia: the dude has a monk fringe with some downy hair in the middle, making him look even more bloated...

 

[brandomack]

This episode was an extemely poorly written piece of crap.

Yes, I know the writers had short notice as shown in the multi episode arc they were attempting to create the episodes previous (Demons, Terra Prime) was completely disregarded and instead pooped out These are the Voyages.

the whole thing left me thinking that CBS are a bunch of douchebags and I would love to punch the man/men responsible right in the testicles as hard as i can,

Then force them to watch TatV for all ETERNITY.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

This episode was an extemely poorly written piece of crap.

Come now, tell us how you really feel.

Yes, I know the writers had short notice as shown in the multi episode arc they were attempting to create the episodes previous (Demons, Terra Prime) was completely disregarded and instead pooped out These are the Voyages.

Actually, it's worse. I have read that the script was written at least a year earlier, and pressed into service for the finale (heaven only knows why). This would explain why the story didn't seem to acknowledge anything that happened during Season 4.

Also, I read that the story was originally set in the "present day," i.e., 2154, but at the eleventh hour Manny Coto persuaded them to change the year to six years later. This might explain why no one got promoted after ten years of service aboard Enterprise.

I regret that I have no links to an article or interview to confirm this info; it's stuff I've read on this and other boards, but it seems plausible, considering the end result. If anyone has links to sources, please post! I would be interested in reading them.

 

[number6]

Go on a diet, man or cut out the beer! Wow!

And get hair plugs for your bald spot!

Agreed, or wear a rug! Check out his most recent convention pics on Wikipedia: the dude has a monk fringe with some downy hair in the middle, making him look even more bloated...

The irony of this post on a Trek board is priceless.. Someone should also say that Frakes needs to move out of his parents' basement.

 

[Gaith]

Also, I read that the story was originally set in the "present day," i.e., 2154, but at the eleventh hour Manny Coto persuaded them to change the year to six years later.

... And why was that, anyway?

 

[JiNX-01]

Also, I read that the story was originally set in the "present day," i.e., 2154, but at the eleventh hour Manny Coto persuaded them to change the year to six years later.

... And why was that, anyway?

Perhaps because killing off Trip right after Elizabeth dies would be a bit much even for this piece of ?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Poor T'Pol - she would have lost her mother, daughter and bond-mate all in the space of a few months.

 

[Gaith]

Also, I read that the story was originally set in the "present day," i.e., 2154, but at the eleventh hour Manny Coto persuaded them to change the year to six years later.

... And why was that, anyway?

Perhaps because killing off Trip right after Elizabeth dies would be a bit much even for this piece of ?

Eh, that was a lame episode anyway. And they knew the baby for what, two days?

 

[JiNX-01]

... And why was that, anyway?

Perhaps because killing off Trip right after Elizabeth dies would be a bit much even for this piece of ?

Eh, that was a lame episode anyway. And they knew the baby for what, two days?

Well, my second brother was stillborn and my parents didn't have him for five minutes and they still mourned.

Thanks for stopping by.